Monday, June 09, 2008

It's Coming...


The FED will have to print money?

Sorry but when the consumers run out of whatever they are using as collateral...the monetization process will stop...

No new money will be produced...so then all that will be left is the 250 or so trillion dollar equivalent global money supply...

One percent is 2.5 trillion...That's more than enough if it chased after gold to blow the price of gold through the roof in relation to created out of thin air money...

But of course with no money supply growth...there will be no way to sustain that or any "doomsday" spike up that shows up before the end of the world as you know it for any significant length of time.

All the money in circulation is owed to the top...x amount plus interest...with the bottom having to request the top to create the interest plus interest in order to pay the interest due on all the previously requested x amount plus interest.

What the hyperinflationists keep trying to get you all to think will happen is that when the bottom can no longer request the top to expand the money supply so that the bottom can pay the top what they owe the top for expanding the money supply...the top is just going to create money for free without any backing or requirement for the bottom to pay back and give it to the bottom so that the bottom can then pay the top what they owe to the top.

You (Bottom) owe me (Top) 1000 dollars

I (Bottom) don't have $1000 and I'm maxed out and can't request any more new money to be created.

(Top) Don't worry...I'll just create $1000 out of thin air and give it to you...don't worry, you will never have to pay it back or anything...But you owe me $1000 so unfortunately you will have to just hand it back to me...

SORRY but that is not going to happen


What is?

The monetization process that has been fueling the post WW2 (1933-1945 bankruptcy reorganization of the global system) roaring 6 decades will reach the maximum potential to be sustained. Then the global money supply will stop growing by the required amount to postpone the inevitable implosion any longer.

Then the global system that has been inflating greater than previous inflation for the past 6 decades will stop and begin inflating less than previous inflation to maximum potential...or implode to oblivion.

Poof.

All that the banks are doing now is propping everything up until after the US elections so that the newly installed puppet, and the installed puppets outside the USA, can blame the previously installed puppet for all the mindboggling austerity measures that are coming.

Growth of Domestic Nonfinancial Debt

1998 6.7
1999 6.3
2000 4.9
2001 6.3
2002 7.3
2003 8.1
2004 8.8
2005 9.2
2006 8.8
2007 8.2
2008 6.5 (1st Quarter annualized)

"Debt of domestic nonfinancial sectors is estimated to have expanded at a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 6-1/2 percent in the first quarter of 2008, one percentage point slower than in the previous quarter. The deceleration was widespread across sectors. Household debt expanded at an annual rate of 3-1/2 percent in the first quarter, 2-1/2 percentage points below the pace in the previous quarter. In the first quarter, growth of home mortgage debt decreased to an annual rate of 3 percent, less than half of the pace of 2007."

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/Current/z1.pdf


It's coming...

Inflation greater than previous inflation to maximum potential is what you all call inflation...

Inflation less than previous inflation to maximum potential is what you all call deflation.

The required amount of inflation to sustain inflation greater than previous inflation to maximum potential for as long as possible...

Is not too much and not too little but always greater than previous...

In 1998 I was telling people that Y2K was a year...2000 and it was going to arrive and the New Economy would implode...I was saying back then that it would be a good idea to get out of the markets before 2000 and into Silver or Gold coins...

Stages of a compounding interest commercial banking monetary system.

1. Inflation of debt and the destruction of savings.

2. Deflation of debt and the destruction of equity.

3. Bankruptcy of the banks, Collapse of the economy/division of labor, and the consolidation of power...

When I first told people that it was game over in 1998 the total debt money supply of the USA was 21 Trillion dollars and since then US consumers have requested the commercial banks to manufacture another 28 trillion dollars in 10 years...

From 1 Trillion to 21 Trillion took...34 years.

In 2000 US consumers were requesting 5 Billion dollars of new debt/money a day or 1 Trillion dollars of new debt/money every 200 days to be manufactured by the commercial banking system of the USA.

Don't worry...you are speeding like a rocket towards the brick wall of proof you have to see to believe...

It's all over except the crying.

This thing you are living in...you know civilization?

It's a lie...a mass cherished delusion and it's about to suffer a loss of power then shatter to oblivion.

The US consumers are going to retire when they can no longer request the required amount of debt inflation needed by the system to sustain its inflation greater than previous inflation to maximum potential...

That is maximum potential and then the system will inflate less than previous inflation to maximum potential...

You will all wake up from the daydream into the nightmare at maximum potential...

It's what all the new police state style rules are for...To manage the mass liquidation...To deal with the fate resisters.

Insurgent--A person who revolts against civil authority or an established government.

911--wahoooga wahoooga emergency...WAR ON TERROR.

It's a richmans war and a poormans fight.

You are either with them or with the terrorists.


Soldiers follow orders so it's irrelevent what their opinions are...

In WW2 the war against Germany and Japan was won by reducing them to smoldering rubble piles...plain and simple...then hiring the survivors to rebuild.

The USA squandered their chance at the start of the Iraq war to take Iraq intact...The USA did not have offensive forces...Just defensive forces...

Saddam had a force of 500,000+ to just maintain security in Iraq...and a huge police force and secret service on the front lines...

The USA as foreign invaders didn't and don't even come close...When the British were in Iraq they did the exact same thing...Invaded with enough to shoot the place up...but not enough troops to control Iraq...

Populations eventually become used to the shooting and just accept it...Populations eventually become used to the control and just accept it.

This is just a replay of a chess move that is known to fail.

The US Military has failed...and is destroying itself.

So then who benefits from a US military that is self-destructing?

Who benefited from the German self destruction at Stalingrad?

What happens when the US military has to actually fight against a real threat from behind?

Those who desire the US military to be very weak when they make their move are obviously behind the push for the US military to stay in Iraq and self-destruct...

It's not betrayal...It's Stupidity...

The only game that is ending is the current one that you think you are winning...

The top designed it so the players lose by default and the owners of the game win by default.

The top hires you all to play...It's what the top uses their invention called money for.

26 comments:

Anton said...

"You will all wake up from the daydream into the nightmare at maximum potential.."

Hyper, dude, how old are you? When will you wake up into the nightmare of being in your 60's-70's? What will you do when your liver and your kidneys, and your heart have reached their maximum potential?

skip sievert said...

The ''top'' did not invent money. It was a slow process that developed by default on its own. There is no conspiracy. However there is a desire to make money and what ever... which way... that is possible.
Here is an example...

"The Commodity Futures Trading Commission has announced plans to help stabilize rising food prices, but critics say it doesn’t go far enough to rein in Wall Street speculators who have contributed to a 183 percent increase in the cost of food, crude oil and metals over the past five years.

The CFTC initiative, unveiled June 3, calls for the agency to reconsider a 17-year-old decision to allow investment banks to purchase unlimited numbers of futures contracts for commodities like wheat, corn and soybeans. All other nonagricultural market traders have limits to protect the market from excessive speculation. Some market and agricultural experts say the unregulated banks are overwhelming the commodity markets with their stacks of cash and should also have limits.

Congress began regulating the commodity futures markets after World War I for two purposes. One was to help farmers, grain elevator operators and their customers – livestock and chicken producers, food manufacturers and the like – buy and sell futures contracts to protect themselves from sudden changes in prices. The other was to create a basis for spot market prices.

"There’s no question the increased number of investors in commodities markets have really increased volatility and driven up prices," said Patrick Woodall, a senior policy analyst with Food and Water Watch, a consumer advocacy organization. "It’s being felt in grocery stores and at overseas ports."

As part of its plan to stabilize commodity markets, the CFTC also announced it has been investigating a sudden run-up in the cotton futures markets during February and March.

The commodities markets have always had speculators. But the amount of money unregulated speculators put in the commodities markets has exploded, from $13 billion at the end of 2003 to $260 billion as of March, according to Mike Masters, a managing member of the hedge fund Masters Capital Management LLC.

It’s not just the amount of money they pour into the agriculture markets, it’s the way they pour it, Masters said. The large investment banks and their customers overwhelmingly treat the commodity markets as if they’re stock markets – they buy and hold their contracts for long periods of time rather than buy and sell frequently, Masters said. These investors hardly ever sell.

In essence, investment banks are “hoarding” commodities, treating the futures market like a virtual warehouse and driving up prices, Masters said. For example, unregulated speculators are sitting on 1.1 billion bushels of wheat futures, Masters said. That’s enough wheat to supply every American with bread, pasta and baked goods for the next two years.

"The commodities futures markets were not designed for that strategy," Masters said. "They’re designed for bona fide hedgers who consume and deliver their wares."

Among the many reasons food prices are increasing - high energy prices, droughts in Australia, the weak U.S. dollar, and growing economies in China and India - futures speculation ranks at the top, Masters says.

"It’s very hurtful having institutions amplify price moves by significant amounts," Masters said. "This is a societal issue, this is something people need to know about."

-----------------------Changing this system can be done... by blaming people because they are being rewarded for bad behavior.. it only creates more of the divide and conquer ideology that our Price System thrives on.

Why not just expose what the flaming sword is and who the Cherubs guarding the way are?

That is a poetic allusion to the deception and lies perpetuated by the Political Price System.
The group that invented religion.
Funny they built all the inside jokes into it.
They were meant though to leaven the bullshit with a little reality.

HYPERTlGER said...

The top invented money.

The top invented the system.

But according to you the employees created the employers...

Yes it can be changed...Just as soon as you become the top...as soon as you become employer...Because currently all you are is an employee.

Until then skip, Your demands will be skipped.

The employers will say...Listen to us and do as we say and you will recieve enough power to continue to sustain your existance...Listen to skip and you will recieve no power and eventually transform into a skeletons.

Tell me how long an employee will last if one day they decide that the system their employer invented and uses is wrong and that the system they invented is better and the employer should step down and become an employee while the employee then steps up and becomes employer?

Seconds at best...

You are an idiot...Years of social engineering has turned you into creature that is more tame than a house cat and more retarded than an actual retard...You expect me to lend my support to help cause your fantasies of taking control of and changing a 6000+ year old system transform into reality...

Of course the commission of braindead morons that have no clue as to how the system works or where their paychecks come from is reconsidering...

That's what braindead morons do when all of a sudden the world begins rapidly crumbling all around them and the screams get louder and louder.

Lets say they do change it (speculate) so that Investment banks can only input a limited amount of power into the support of demand for inflation greater than previous inflation.

Well then inflation greater than previous inflation will reach maximum potential sooner rather than later and transform into inflation less than previous inflation...or deflation...and the whole system will implode...poof.

THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE ON EARTH CAN DO TO STOP THE ARRIVAL AT THE LOGICAL CONCLUSION.

This current system will inflate greater than previous inflation to maximum potential then inflate less than previous inflation to maximum potential...

It's a wave...The only way to avoid the logical conclusion is to not take more power than is given.

The top in any and all hierarchies in all of history has always sucked more power from the bottom than they redistribute back.

The technate overlords will do the same...

Because if they don't there is no way to stop someone else from taking more power than they give until they have all the power required to defeat the Technate overlords and take over.

Yes the system can be changed...Just as soon as you become top...

One slight problem...the current top...

That can see you long before you see the destroyers they send to annihilate the threat.

HYPERTlGER said...

Oh and the primary cause of inflation greater than previous inflation within human affairs?

Sexual intercourse...

So then to ultimately take control of inflation greater than previous inflation...You have to take control of the Human reproduction system...

Human beings have the power to reproduce quicker than they cease to exist.

It's why we all exist currently...It's why there is 6000+ years of history to look at.

Do anything to cause humanity to stop reproducing quicker than we cease to exist...And we certainly will cease to exist...

Where do the Technate clowns mention this?

They don't...Because they are OBLIVIOUS.

Anonymous said...

DO YOU GET IT SKIP?

The technate overlords will do the same...

Because if they don't there is no way to stop someone else from taking more power than they give until they have all the power required to defeat the Technate overlords and take over.

skip sievert said...

Huh?
You sound like a broken record with fixed ideas.
Really you are only parroting something... and I have not heard any creative debate here or even an understanding of the current dynamic beyond homily and slogans...

''''''''''''''The technate overlords will do the same...

Because if they don't there is no way to stop someone else from taking more power than they give until they have all the power required to defeat the Technate overlords and take over.'''''''''''''''

You know... it might be a good idea to look at the information... the design precludes special interest groups.

But.... Hyper Tiger is a division of the Illuminis... the group that says you are victims...

You know.. you are not as smart as you think you are..

The real definition of intelligence is the ability to absorb new information... and the information you are putting out is not only not new it is....'''if you believe the premise, the rest is easy...'''

Reality is ... I can chew you up and spit you out before breakfast...
Because you are not creative...

Good example... ha ah you think the truth is fixed.
This tells me you are either a lame brain or have never looked at any thing beyond Ayn Rand and Libertarian Politics with Austrian school mixed in.

I will not stick around here much longer..
Its boring and petty and vicious.
Just to let you all know though that paper tiger represents the bad guys.
The slave guys.... The Price System.

A scientific social system is not a people oligarchy... savvy?
And administration by science is very much like the original city state of Sumer... which lasted about 1500 years... but you did not bother to read the file on History Money & Energy Accounting....
Why?
Because you are a member of the thought police. Ha.

I promise not to embarrass you much further.. I am disappointed that you do not understand a rhetorical polemic debate... or rather are just not a good debater because your thinking is stilted.

No matter. The debate part is over.. you just have not figured that out yet. As your information grows... but that is the problem... you may.
Have a nice day.

Anonymous said...

Can they keep this boat level until after the "election"?

What should we be doing between now and then?

Thank You for trying...

skip sievert said...

Stock up on food and friends. Those will be the only important things. Globalism will fail by the end of this month. Starting most likely from the pacific rim.. Indonesia etc... and working domino style to California.
We may be in a state of emergency by Sept.
They will have to decide whether to go to the old Fema system devised as a transition out of the Price System by Technocrats... or use the new Homeland defense Fema the one controlled by the Whitehouse and Congress.
If the latter is used we will be in a collapsed fascist socialist state... and if we do have an ''election'' they will call it Democracy.

That does not really matter as Obama.. McCain are the same entity.

Both controlled by special interest groups... the same special interest groups of church and state.
The military industrial congressional complex.

Hyper tiger has that part right ... maybe. We are going to crash and burn.
All the more reason to change into something better and not just the same old merry go round as hyper tiger so dismally recounts as our fate.

Anonymous said...

dang skip you are one of these paranoids... I cant read all the posts... anyways.. Yall buy all the food and shit and drive the prices up. Fufill your destiny. Then when you all think its supposed to end, jump in the lake. Just dont jump in my lake, I dont need to dodge cretins on my jet skis.... If you guys want... I one month I can eat a steak and poop it in a bag and send it to you. You doomsday theorists need to think a little or get out in the sun some. Quit living on your mommy's and daddy's leavings and get a job. Be a benifit to society instead of its chicken little.

Anonymous said...

Yep!! I believe it's coming too. And I think we're closer now than ever before. And the logic behind my belief is a bit different from anything HT has posted as of yet... even though his historical data has been insightful as all get out.

History most definitely is a portrait.. and it has painted the picture of our present reality.

TheSkaven said...

I'm not sure why Hyper even reads these comments, he's clearly wasting his time with you people. You have no concept of how money is created.

Look around you, people. Money is created when people ask for it to be created. People have reached their maximum potential and cannot ask for more money. Once money stops being created, deflation begins.

It's not all that complicated for crying out loud!

Really, it's not even relevant at this point. In about 6 months, everyone is going to be wondering around clueless and looking for someone to blame...

Anonymous said...

"Stock up on food and friends. "

skip, that is the best and wise advice any one can give. Thanks!!!

Still, Technate is not the panacea you make it to be. I second Anon-11:36

"The technate overlords will do the same...

Because if they don't there is no way to stop someone else from taking more power than they give until they have all the power required to defeat the Technate overlords and take over."


Cheers...

skip sievert said...

I did not bother to connect the links in this ... but this is a foretaste of what is in store in the short term.

I would note again anon that there are NO overlords in a Technate as designed by Technocracy Incorporated originally. It is not an oligarchic people control design. It is a scientific social design.

Price System demise.
There is no honesty or dishonesty in a Price System, or only such, as relates to some very twisted concepts. Those concepts are moral concepts or Price System concepts within a civil society context. Civil society meaning ancient middle eastern moral value system. A scarcity based social control system.

Only within the context of 'if you believe the premise', the rest is easy, can sense be made of it.

All choice in a Price System is determined by whether something either makes a profit or not, and further, by the concept of private property.

There is a saying : Most fortunes are originally made by a hidden crime. If the crime is hidden well enough, no one ever finds out about it.

The world dollar hegemony is predicated on the resource base of North America.
Our consumer society depends on a wage slave labor force controlled by dollars here and abroad.
Globalism is predicated on the North American resource base. We also provide a Globalism mercenary force. Globalism controls the current Price System template for the most part.
Witness Iraq, and the capture and control of oil.

The Euro in its way is a pale and impotent tool. The European resource base is dependent on North America for food and raw materials. Also Russia supplies much energy to Europe currently.

With approx. 52% of the worlds resource base North America and in particular the U.S. runs a large portion of the world, but can survive on its own very well without being the tool of Globalism, or using a Price System.

The current world system is totally dependent on Globalism and Corporate control.

When Globalism does collapse and it is going to, then a day of reckoning comes as to areas that are poor in resources and over populated.

Russia with approx. 32% of the world resource base will survive because of their resource base and technology, also their relatively low population and their scientific community.

The far Asian countries with something like 7% or less of world resources, are doomed with their population (that includes China, Indonesia etc.).

What about money or debt tokens ?

It makes no difference, if the U.S. pays or does not pay its so called ``debt ''. We still have the resources, and resources are what counts. A new system must start somewhere, however if THIS system can not rule, it may ruin...

A piece of paper means one thing when you put a five on it and another when you add a zero to that five. In other words only in a Price System that uses debt tokens are those paper markings serious issues. Nothing real is measured with money.

Since no real choice in regard to resources is made correctly in a Price System, the system dooms itself in time.

The debt was never meant to be paid. It was and is only a stop gap to keep our Price System functioning. Like a car with an old patched tire, eventually it will fail. Technology has accelerated that process. Labor is an antiquated idea with mechanization. Mechanization destroys so called purchasing power when people depend on the concept of Price System jobs. Machines work for free.
Technology destroys the Price System. Productivity is measured in mechanical energy used, not human power.

In a Price System the whole idea is to spend someone else's money or debt.
Our Price System is designed primarily to control people.
Concepts like Democracy are used in effect as civil society contracts to control and manipulate others according to opinion and belief.

So what is going to happen ? No one knows the future, but the next most probable says...

Globalism will collapse in any number of ways.

The earth will have to reconcile itself to the fact that we would need 6 or 7 earths to maintain our crazy level of resource and environmental destruction and even then using money as a determinant for real decisions would doom our lives, due to special interest groups and the nature of money.

There will most likely be a civil war/civil society breakdown in the U.S. when our Price System fails - It is hoped that our military will dispose of our criminal/political thug society that runs the U.S. currently, and a Technate then be established. The only practical design for a future system is located in the Technocracy Study Course in its last two chapters. That design precludes special interest groups, and is based on secular humanitarian principles and science. People are left to their own device as to what to believe or not. There is no accounting for belief. Science is the vehicle that operates a Technate.

Our society with its incredible dependence on mechanical energy from oil can not survive a disruption in oil currently. If that happens it sets off an exponential domino effect that takes out the Price System economy. Any number of other causes of a system collapse are possible.

Then it will have to be decided what we do next. With any luck that time of emergency will not last long and we will change systems.

The original FEMA system, devised by Technocrats, was designed to be a change over mechanism. In the old FEMA system during an emergency, rents, mortgages and utilities would have been suspended for the entire United States for the duration. In effect our Price System would then have been suspended.
That in effect would have put us in a Technate of sorts. Our notions of money would be changed at that point, as a culture.

Our current Political system, both sides removed FEMA, a few years ago from this former role.

Now in a collapse, our system is controlled by the 'president' and congress instead of a FEMA director, and FEMA for that purpose, was placed in HOMELAND DEFENSE.

It was a stand alone agency previously.
The old FEMA pulled the plug on our Political system and was designed to do that as said, by Technocrats.

This change of FEMA has been done to a purpose, to ensure our system remains under the current political control.

Many people are aware of this dynamic. People in the various war colleges and elsewhere.

This is a setup for a civil war. The American people are up against the Political and Religious special interest groups that want to maintain control.
The ONLY viable alternative is the Technate design if our wish is to survive and go forward in a creative culture.

Once people here have a taste of a different system we would not go back to our antique Adam Smith labor system.

The system will keep itself going as long as it can. It then will try to control a collapse by every means available.
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dfx7rfr2_70cmz88f
I am the Price System - essay. Technate design information.

It is thought that an opportunity to remove our Political system which is currently controlled by Political dissemblers is possible.

A Technate as described in the Technocracy Study Course is based on functional governance, and that system is the next most probable system, if survival is looked to.

It can be said that the variety of special interest groups that cooperate and control the societal template actually hate each other also, because of the differing belief systems they advocate, but at the same time they cooperate currently to maintain control.

That means that things are going to get very ugly during a time of chaos and collapse when they stop cooperating, and begin fighting for Price System power.

The caste/class, money system, is a social control mechanism and always has been. http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=dfx7rfr2_109m3xbv3&hl=en

skip sievert said...

An Excerpt from ... I am the Price System..

I HAVE TO EXPAND OR CONTRACT

I have my economists tell people that growth of production is the only way to cope with the situation. However, new technology increases Profits, but it makes it ever more difficult to reinvest Profits. This takes place despite my best efforts at Monopoly Control, Restricted Production, High Prices, Shoddy Goods, Buried Patents, Cartel Agreements, and Financial and Political Interference. Private Enterprise very easily out-produces its ability to sell the goods it makes. Reinvestment in new industry becomes ever more necessary and ever more difficult.

From 1860 to 1914 in North America my Debt was always healthy. Since 1914 the reverse has been the case. Physical production has been leveling off, but Debt is going straight up into the high heavens.

About 1932, Private Enterprise gave up the struggle to create New Debt and passed that responsibility over to Political State. This lieutenant of mine, strong as he is, now barely staggers along under the growing load. With all the people being disemployed by technology, Political State has become the largest single employer and dispenser of Medium of Exchange. It had to employ people by providing jobs that do nothing productive, so as not to compete with Private Enterprise. Many jobs are in the military arms race, or Political State simply hands out Money. To pay for all this, Political State has to increase taxes and create New Debt.
Since Private Enterprise dumped its Debt-creating prerogative onto Political State, the curve of industrial production has been following the curve of government spending. It's not a problem of finance; it's a problem of how to maintain physical production at a high level so as to create jobs and maintain purchasing power and the free flow of Medium of Exchange. If I allow physical production to be maintained at a high level, I destroy Scarcity; I dry up the flow of Medium of Exchange and have to create more New Debt. No matter which way I turn in North America there is an impasse. Oh, riddle of riddles! What can I do?

Perhaps I can solve that one particular problem at least. Debt, if you remember, is created out of nothing. It can also be dissolved back into nothing. It's called hyper-inflation. Political State increased the amount of Money in circulation until it became dirt cheap. So the debtor takes this legally inflated Money to his creditor and pays off his Debts at a fraction of their former worth. It's a legal swindle, but so what! I told you, Debt is conjured out of nothing, didn't I? Well, when inflation gets out of control, Private Enterprise performs hari kari for the good of all (it's called a depression), and then I start all over again with a brand new Private Enterprise.

In North America the problem of production is solved. The new technology is already installed and can do the job of distributing goods and services for everyone whenever my interference controls are removed. My problem is to stall this off as long as possible and to devise ways and means to freeze social change on a low level. I don't care if it does involve killing off 50 percent to 75 percent of the population of North America. What is that compared to my beloved oligarchies: Private Enterprise, Political State and Ecclesiastics?

Anonymous said...

skip,

"All choice in a Price System is determined by whether something either makes a profit or not,"


The Price System is nothing more than an adaptation from the Laws of Nature. Fact: a cell must harvest sufficient energy in excess of its requirements to survive in order to exist and survive times of famine.

Property law is nothing more than the appropriation of the excess stored energy of others.

No matter how you break it down, it comes down to the same thing time and time again, be it now, in the past or far into the future.

That is why it is said: “Truth is immutable.”

Question: how would Technate deal with human parasites in excess of the capabilities of the productive majority?

Extermination?

skip sievert said...

You assume too much.

A Technate is not related to how you think. It is more creative and comes from a different perspective.

You can not equate the laws of nature to the Price System.

If natural law is broken you die. That is why your ideas of truth or morality or ethics or even the fabrication of connecting reality with a price system is not correct.

Our political price system originated at a time and place. It has no corresponding reality in nature.

Your idea of human parasites is outmoded libertarian Ayn Randian thinking.
The basis of so called work does not exist any more.
Mechanical energy replaced that at least by 1913 with the increase in extraneous mechanical energy.
Now purchasing power is destroyed in a Price System.
As a social control mechanism it will no longer work in the future unless we regress with dumbed down Technology.
In other words it is now possible to have a good society based on secular humanitarian ideas ....
but the window of opportunity may close if we opt for a collapsed fascist socialist dictatorship which is the choice the price system is putting up now in order to maintain its social control.

So the next six months will be critical ... for change .. as the system collapses.

The Technate is designed for North America only. Right now the population in relation to resources is manageable.
We grew 11 billion bushels of corn in the U.S. alone last year.
This is a staggering amount.
This alone would keep us in corn for many many years.... but we choose to ''sell'' this for a ''profit''.
Wheat is the same...
Right now the level of existence could be much higher within a sustainable resource base than now for Every North American...
The system we have now kills all of us in this time frame because it no longer makes sense on any level.

While it is unfortunate that many people in the world are going to die a Malthusian death... and I mean that sincerely... it is tragic;;; it is also inevitable.
Our desire for profit has doubled the population since world war 2.

There is no way out of the coming days of reckoning...

Some one has to start some where.
After a Technate is established here others can try and copy it as best they can.
We may be able to help them.
But some area has to start by example.

Your premise is wrong and that is why your ideas ultimately are also wrong in this context of ''truth'' and immutable laws ... in regard to human nature and our current price system.
This is a result of receiving bad information over and over and over.

Some of the libertarian clap trap aspect that you are thinking is in reality not real.
You have made this in to a grand and heroic model.
It is not.
11 billion bushels of corn would translate into 35,000 bushels for every man woman and child in the U.S. alone.
Can you wrap your mind around that?
And the concept of extraneous mechanical energy making that possible in this world, and not the flat line of 7.000 years of being dependent on a human that puts out 1/20th of a horse power?

This is new information but has been known for some time.
It was hidden mostly due to the media and the mandate for a controlled brainwashed system.

Unfortunately you are a part of that ... but as said this is new information here... and you can run with it.
It would make Hyper Tiger then interesting.
Now it is the same same old.
Not creative.
A group of Americans (the Technical Alliance) figured this out some time ago.
Now is the time to alert other people.
Keep in mind that the org. Technocracy Incorporated was the fastest growing social movement in the U.S. and Canada in the early to mid 30's.
We are entering a chaotic time that will make the 30`' look like a walk in the park as you know.

Anonymous said...

skip,

I did not equate the Price System to the Laws of Nature, I said it was an ADAPTATION.

Technate is not the answer.

I will make it simple for you and I will tell you what the answer is:

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY

And what does that boil down to?

KILL OR BE KILLED

Too brutal?

Yes, but it is a fact.

What are you to do with someone that is not willing to compromise and wished to kill or enslave you?

Let him kill you or enslave you… OR you kill and enslave him.

Your choice… Your PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY…

skip sievert said...

Sorry that interpretation... and that is what it is ... is to bleak and dismal and does not lead to any thing in particular except nasty chaos.

While this is a distinct possibility in our immediate future it is a worse case scenario and betrayal of humanity and the future of our children.
It is rhetoric in the sense that it is a throw back way of thinking. This may have been our fate previously ... but with the advent of Technology a sea change is possible and should/could come about.
The Application of Science To The Means Whereby We Live

Through countless centuries man has found his own security in the insecurity of others, has found his own economic and cultural haven at the expense of poverty and subservience in the majority, has found that a higher station in life was possible only for the few, not the multitude.


Throughout man's history a gigantic effort has been going on to erase from the face of the earth all evil between individuals, groups, and nations. The approach has been an attempt at reforming and converting the individual with the hope that sufficient numbers of "good" men and women gathered in all lands might allow a lasting agreement upon the existing physical conflicts to be achieved. There is no need to picture here the futility of this approach and its very evident failure to accomplish the idealistic dreams.

It is perhaps one of the major ironies of history that a new and the only adequate approach should have been projected and offered by certain interpreters of applied physical science who distinctly disclaim as their motivating force all idealistic searches for truth, love, peace, harmony, and other imponderables.

These interpreters, people of science, undertook an analysis of the operational problems of the North American Continental area. From this analysis they synthesized a technological design of social operation which they predicted as the next most probable form of social control in this area.
It was objectively presented.

By it, human history can become for the first time a planned progression, based on an a quantitative analysis of the continental totality, as contrasted with the old haphazard increment of the components peculiar to evolution; i.e. the planned arrival of the fittest, instead of the mere survival of the fittest.

It is precisely the intricate immenseness of the Continental Problems arising in the control and operation of a unique high-energy civilization that requires and results in a unique and entirely new social methodology.

------------------ Now again.. this is new information... which is very important information.. although it may be a little hard to wrap the mind around.

It does not give a programmed answer such as ''personal responsibility''

People are rewarded for bad behavior in a Price System. Period. When changing out of that system the behavior stops.

People are now rewarded for making money... that does not make sense any more.
All choice is filtered through this thing that only rewards the making of profit.
This destroys the Price System and us as our resource base is destroyed for only desultory reasons.
Technology destroys the price system ... or makes a version that becomes an awful nightmare.

Anonymous said...

Skip,

You are substituting technology with human volition.

Technate is nothing more than another scheme by which to organize the social order. Technate is still subject to the Laws of Nature, to Truth.

Good luck with your panacea, just hope you are further up the Technate structure to sustain your content existence and not at the bottom with the rest of the grist.

Anonymous said...

Here’s how I see TNAT and unless there’s a major dieing off of the current population or a major paradigm shift, it won’t work.

After the current global system dies and all the chaos that follows many will not survive. But for the sake of my little scenario, let’s assume a 20 to 30% survival rate of our current population in North America. Keep in mind that majority of the survivors are survivors of the price system. It’s all they know.

Maybe a select few of the survivors have heard of the TNAT accounting system and decide to implement it. They start passing out energy certificates to every one they come in contact with. They explain that they can have everything they need/want in exchange for their energy. That they will have to farm, repair and/or build the houses, electrical plants, infrastructure etc but it won’t cost them a dime because it’s an energy exchange. Give and you shall receive… sort of thing.

Half of the survivors like the idea. Half hate it.

The half that likes it go to work setting up their communities. They make the TnAT people their leaders. They look up to them like gods. Lucky for them the tnat people don’t want to be worshipped and the communities start to thrive. But they don’t live happily ever after because the other half of the survivors see all the progress being made and aren’t happy with what they see. They feel cheated, They were used to being able to create wealth with nothing… not with this new system. So they decided to make weapons of mass destruction.

777clear said...

"the only answer was an unstoppable technology, that would produce real OTs that would burn every drop of this evil off of this planet in instants"

skip sievert said...

Your getting closer now anon 220.. but you are still not following the information.

This system needs trained personnel.

It needs an advanced high energy infrastructure.
And it needs a compatible resource base.

You are still looking through a bleak and hopeless lens though.

What you are considering is all dead end.

You do not understand the Technate design system either.

You have been poisoned by the Libertarians.

Stop thinking the same way.

We have a Technate now... the problem is it is controlled by political dissemblers.... that is the problem.

It is not controlled by scientists.

It is controlled by the brainwashed.

skip sievert said...

----------They feel cheated, They were used to being able to create wealth with nothing… not with this new system. So they decided to make weapons of mass destruction. --------

What you are saying here does not really make sense. There are no have and have nots. There is no charity because it is not needed. It is a certain area and each citizen is an equal citizen in consuming rights.

Consuming rights is real freedom. Not voting. Or trying to screw other people for money.

You are still looking through a stilted Libertarian construct that makes you deluded about human nature.

You believe the worst about humans.

A good educational system takes care of a lot of the problems we have now. One that is not based on brainwashing.

Remember you are a victim of other peoples nonsense.

HYPERTlGER said...

Skip the system you see in operation right now is based on power...

Top sucks power from the bottom to the top and then redistributes back...With of course the top or level above taking more than is redistributed back to the bottom or level below.

Now of course the top is not going to embrace the technate because it will cause them to have to step down and be at the mercy of the technate...But all below the top will wull have to step down from where they are currently and become a slave to the technate.

Even you skip will have to at some point accept premature self destruction so that the glorious technate revolution will live.

Reguardless...The one desire that life cananot escape from is the desire to sustain existance for as long as possible...

Fool yourselves into becomeing a soldier and stepping into a hail of bullets or fool yourself into following the technate design to it's logical conclusion.

The result will be the same...You all will start dropping dead in mass numbers and stop at some point...Until of course you fool yourselves again.

The top will never commit suicide and they will easily be able to obtain the support of the bottom to sustain the the current system.

The only thing wrong with the current system is your ignorance of how it functions...

Politics...You will do as I command.

Price...Or you will not obtain what you want.

Which is power.

SKIP THERE IS NO WAY YOU WILL EVER OBTAIN WHAT YOU WANT FROM ME UNTIL WHAT YOU WANT AND NEED ARE THE SAME THING SINCE I ONLY GIVE YOU WHAT YOU NEED.

If the above is not what you want...Then there is no way that you will ever obtain what you want from me.

The only thing you are ever going to obtain from me is what you need.

So much food is exported out because there is a surplus...cut exports and there will no longer be a need to over produce food.

Other than to support the technate sales pitch of more and more food to sustain the inflation of the population faster and faster.

Vote Technate...We supply the food...You supply the mouths to gobble it up.

And not foreign mouths...Just North American mouths.

How about the food producers just produce enough food to feed themselves?

You still are ignoring the fact...truth...That 1 food producer produces 1000's of times more food than they require to power their continued existance.

Like in the olden days...

The technate priesthood placed quotas on food producers to produce X amount so that the food producers could supply the Technate Priestking with the required power...

In order to sustain their position...Failure to produce the required power ment the elimination of the food producer and replacement with a more obediant or superior food producer.

While the technate redistributed the rest of the power to all the non food producers or worshipers to sustain them.

Because if the Technate system failed to sustain the worshipers existance...The worshipers would cease to exist and stop worshiping the technate.

Duh.

In order for the Technate, take over the world, plan to work...The future technate overlords would have to conquer and take over North American power production...

From the current overlords or owners and then rapidly prepare for the counterattack by the former owners of the power production that would be attempting to reobtain the power that the technate stole.

That's the bright glorious future you are attempting to sucker poor unfortunate souls into choosing to malinvest power into.

Fool yourselves into becomeing a soldier and stepping into a hail of bullets or fool yourself into following the technate design to it's logical conclusion.

With the technate...It's out of the frying pan into the frying pan...

But with a power struggle added in between the hop.

Oh joy.

skip sievert said...

Skip the system you see in operation right now is based on power...
NO IT IS BASED ON STUPIDITY.

Top sucks power from the bottom to the top and then redistributes back...With of course the top or level above taking more than is redistributed back to the bottom or level below.
THAT IS THE PRICE SYSTEM.

Now of course the top is not going to embrace the technate because it will cause them to have to step down and be at the mercy of the technate...But all below the top will wull have to step down from where they are currently and become a slave to the technate.
IT IS NOT A CLASS OR CASTE SYSTEM. YOU HAVE NOT READ OR UNDERSTOOD THE MATERIAL. IT IS A SCIENTIFIC SOCIAL DESIGN. NO MERCY INVOLVED.

Even you skip will have to at some point accept premature self destruction so that the glorious technate revolution will live.

IT IS NOT A REVOLUTIONARY GROUP. IT IS A EDUCATIONAL AND RESEARCH GROUP. MY PLACE IN IT IS ONLY AS ONE OF MANY MESSENGERS. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME. I LIKE IT BECAUSE IT JIVES WITH WHAT I KNOW.

Reguardless...The one desire that life cananot escape from is the desire to sustain existance for as long as possible... THAT IS NORMAL SURVIVAL.

Fool yourselves into becomeing a soldier and stepping into a hail of bullets or fool yourself into following the technate design to it's logical conclusion.
HUH?

The result will be the same...You all will start dropping dead in mass numbers and stop at some point...Until of course you fool yourselves again.

YES? YOUR POINT?

The top will never commit suicide and they will easily be able to obtain the support of the bottom to sustain the the current system.
YOU MAY THINK SO... BUT THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY FOR HUMANS TO BREAK THE CYCLE AND CREATE A 'GOOD' SOCIETY. IT IS EITHER THAT OR ROLL OVER AND PLAY DEAD.
The only thing wrong with the current system is your ignorance of how it functions...

WRONG THERE. I WAS A PLAYER. I AM A HISTORIAN. I KNOW ECONOMICS FROM A TO Z. AND HISTORY, I AM AN EXPERT.

Politics...You will do as I command.
BITING THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU IS VERY EFFECTIVE. REVOLT RESIST AND OVER COME. REALITY IS THAT PURCHASING POWER IS NOW DESTROYED BECAUSE MECHANIZATION HAS DESTROYED ADAM SMITH LOW ENERGY ECONOMICS. YOU UNDERSTAND? PEOPLE CAN NO LONGER BUY LIGHT BULBS AND TOILET PAPER.. UNLESS THE GOVERNMENT PAYS THEM MONEY NOT TO WORK... AND THAT CAN ONLY GO TO A CERTAIN POINT BECAUSE GUILT AND SHAME ARE A PART OF THE PRICE SYSTEM CONSTRUCT.

Price...Or you will not obtain what you want.
NOT AN ISSUE.

Which is power.
THE DESIGN IS NOT A PEOPLE OLIGARCHY AS HAS BEEN EXPLAINED ALREADY A COUPLE TIMES. IT IS AN ADMINISTRATION BY SCIENCE. THERE IS NO JUDICIAL SYSTEM. TRAINED EXPERTS REPLACE THAT. SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS HAVE NO POWER. THERE ARE NO LAWS BEYOND VIOLENCE AND SCREWING UP THE MACHINES. SABOTAGE.

SKIP THERE IS NO WAY YOU WILL EVER OBTAIN WHAT YOU WANT FROM ME UNTIL WHAT YOU WANT AND NEED ARE THE SAME THING SINCE I ONLY GIVE YOU WHAT YOU NEED.
you give me nothing. i have asked for nothing. i need nothing from you except an open mind and creative investigation. THEN YOU MIGHT BE OF SOME USE.

If the above is not what you want...Then there is no way that you will ever obtain what you want from me.
I EXPECT NOTHING. I AM HERE BECAUSE YOUR BLOG IS MARGINALLY CREATIVE. I USED A SNIPPET IN MY MONEY FILE FROM YOUR WRITING. I USED IT BECAUSE IT WAS GOOD AND YOU GET A PART OF THE PICTURE... BUT YOUR ATTITUDE IS ONE OF SURRENDER AND NIHILISM. THAT IS NOT GOOD POETRY AND GOOD POETRY IS WHERE ITS AT.

The only thing you are ever going to obtain from me is what you need.

I HAVE OBTAINED YOUR POINT OF VIEW WHICH WAS NOTED AND DIGESTED. IT MISSES THE LARGER POINT OF A CHANCE TO MAKE BASIC CHANGE.

So much food is exported out because there is a surplus...cut exports and there will no longer be a need to over produce food.

YES.. I KNOW. NORTH AMERICA CONTAINS ABOUT 52% OF THE WORLDS RESOURCE BASE. THAT IS WHY WE CAN CHANGE.

Other than to support the technate sales pitch of more and more food to sustain the inflation of the population faster and faster.

WRONG ... AGAIN YOU HAVE NOT READ THE MATERIAL. IT IS NOT A GROWTH SYSTEM. A PRICE SYSTEM IS BASED AND MUST CONTINUE WITH GROWTH.

Vote Technate...We supply the food...You supply the mouths to gobble it up.

THERE IS NO VOTING IN THIS SYSTEM.
YOU HAVE A BAD ATTITUDE RELATING TO HUMANS... NO DOUBT TAINTED BY THE CURRENT CULTURE.

And not foreign mouths...Just North American mouths.
THATS RIGHT. SOMEONE HAS TO START SOMEWHERE. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE CURRENT NUMBER OF HUMANS TO LIVE A SUSTAINABLE EXISTENCE. US AND THE RUSSIANS HAVE THE ABILITY, BECAUSE OF OUR RESOURCE BASE, TO CHANGE INTO SOMETHING ELSE. THE RUSSIANS HAVE ABOUT 32% OF THE WORLDS RESOURCES. THE FAR EAST INCLUDING THE PACIFIC RIM AND CHINA HAVE LESS THAN 7%. THEY ARE DOOMED, AS GLOBALISM COLLAPSES. THAT IS STARTING NOW.

How about the food producers just produce enough food to feed themselves?
IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. YOU ARE DRAWING A FALSE PICTURE... NOT CONNECTED.

You still are ignoring the fact...truth...That 1 food producer produces 1000's of times more food than they require to power their continued existance.
NO. THAT IS THE TRUTH. I AM NOT IGNORING THAT. I KNOW THAT 11 BILLION BUSHELS OF CORN WERE GROWN LAST YEAR IN THE U.S. - AND I KNOW WHAT A STAGGERING NUMBER THAT IS. THE PRICE SYSTEM PRICE JUST WENT TO $7.80 CENT A BUSHEL. MULTIPLY THAT NUMBER AND SEE WHAT FIGURE YOU GET... NOW THAT IS STAGGERING IN DOLLARS.. WE DO NOT ADVOCATE MONEY THOUGH... BUT THE GRAIN MERCHANTS HAVE VERY LARGE SPECIAL INTEREST CONTROL.

Like in the olden days...
WHICH OLDEN DAYS?

The technate priesthood placed quotas on food producers to produce X amount so that the food producers could supply the Technate Priestking with the required power...
THE OLD DAYS ARE OVER. THEY NO LONGER COMPUTE. MODERN ENERGY CONVERSION CHANGED THAT. THIS IS NOT SUMERIA.. OR BABYLON... OR 1900 AD. U.S.A. --

In order to sustain their position...Failure to produce the required power ment the elimination of the food producer and replacement with a more obediant or superior food producer.
THAT WOULD BE THE COPORATION.
While the technate redistributed the rest of the power to all the non food producers or worshipers to sustain them.
GET OVER THE IDEA OF POWER. THIS IS ONLY AN ADMINISTRATION BY SCIENCE AND ENERGY ACCOUNTING IS NOT A MONETARY SYSTEM. IT IS AN ACCOUNTING SYSTEM ONLY. THIS IDEA CAME FROM THE ABSOLUTE FLOWERING OF THE AMERICAN MIND IN THE EARLY 1930'S. STOP TALKING LIKE YOU ARE SNAKE BIT.

Because if the Technate system failed to sustain the worshipers existance...The worshipers would cease to exist and stop worshiping the technate.
STOP WITH COMPARING THIS TO A RELIGION. IT IS NOT. NOT EVEN CLOSE. NOT RELATED. NO WORSHIP IS INVOLVED. NONE. PEOPLE CAN DO AS THEY PLEASE IN THAT REGARD. THIS IS NOT A PEOPLE CONTROL PROGRAM AS THE PRICE SYSTEM IS. A REAL EDUCATION WOULD BE HAD. NOT PROPAGANDA.

Duh.
NOT SO DUH.

In order for the Technate, take over the world, plan to work...The future technate overlords would have to conquer and take over North American power production...

WE ALREADY HAVE A TECHNATE. THE PROBLEM IS THAT IT IS CONTROLLED BY POLITICIANS. YOU ARE ANNOYING LIKE A BROKEN RECORD WITH ''OVERLORDS''. NO SUCH ANIMAL. YOU ARE THINKING IN THE LIBERTARIAN BOX. THAT IS A DARK PLACE. A PATHETIC PLACE.

From the current overlords or owners and then rapidly prepare for the counterattack by the former owners of the power production that would be attempting to reobtain the power that the technate stole.

THE WHOLE SYSTEM IS ON THE BRINK OF DESTRUCTION. THE ORIGINAL FEMA PROGRAM DEVELOPED BY TECHNOCRATS WAS DESIGNED WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT THIS IS THE ONLY TYPE OF SYSTEM THAT WILL WORK IF WE WANT TO SURVIVE IN THE FUTURE. THAT IS WHY THE WHITE HOUSE AND CONGRESS GOT RID OF IT A FEW YEARS AGO.

That's the bright glorious future you are attempting to sucker poor unfortunate souls into choosing to malinvest power into.

YOU OFFER NOTHING BUT A POOR BITTER END IN THE MUD OF THE LAST DITCH. WHICH IS BETTER? A CHANCE FOR A GOOD SOCIETY WE COULD PROUD OF OR MORE DUMBED DOWN BULLSHIT?

Fool yourselves into becomeing a soldier and stepping into a hail of bullets or fool yourself into following the technate design to it's logical conclusion.

YOU ARE BEING A STUBBORN IDIOT WITH RHETORIC. YOU HAVE NOT LOOKED AT OUR PLAN. IT IS SECULAR AND HUMANITARIAN.

With the technate...It's out of the frying pan into the frying pan...

NOT REALLY. WE ARE ALL DOOMED IN THE PRICE SYSTEM AS OUR RESOURCE BASE IS DESTROYED. IS THAT NOT EVIDENT?

But with a power struggle added in between the hop.

Oh joy.

WE ARE NOT A REVOLUTIONARY GROUP. WE ARE THE LOGICAL NEXT STEP IF SURVIVAL IS LOOKED TO... FOR BOTH THE top AS YOU CALL THEM AND THE BOTTOM.
IN OTHER WORDS THE POLITICAL RELIGIOUS PRICE SYSTEM WHICH IS BASED ON THE CLASS CASTE SYSTEM... AND IS NOW DOOMED BECAUSE TECHNOLOGY HAS MADE IT OBSOLETE BECAUSE OF ENERGY CONVERSION.

THE BEST THE FUTURE CAN HOLD IN A PRICE SYSTEM NOW IS A COLLAPSED FASCIST SOCIALIST STATE WHICH THEY WILL CALL A ''DEMOCRACY''.
THAT IS WHAT YOU ENDORSE IF YOU SIT ON THE FENCE AND FIDDLE INSTEAD OF DOING SOMETHING USEFUL.. INSTEAD OF JUST MAKING PUFFS OF SMOKE AND RATTLING CHAINS.

Anonymous said...

skip, do our little technate here a favor and go out back and shoot yourself.

actually, stop, don't shoot yourself yet, we may have some use for you as a historian and economist.

quick HT where can we send skip to spread his godspel first???