Saturday, May 17, 2008

There Is No Hope


GOD has no use for money...Silver is in greater supply than gold and copper is in greater supply than silver...

The Gold standard was created by the owners of it since it was easy to control...

The old gold standard that the Gold is money religionists promote a return to was the Rothschild London Fix Gold Standard...

The Official Gold price of the USA is $44.4444 an ounce...and 416 grains of Silver minted into a coin by the US mint at the request of the US Treasury is 1 US dollar...

The US Mint and US Treasury are not constructed over gold or silver or copper mines...

How then do they satisfy the demand by all of you for more money? Peasants invest very little to no thought into this question while the rich do and did and know the answer that you all don't know...

Gold does not circulate like silver does or can...Peasants are paid in silver or copper not gold...

Rich people play games with gold while peasants play games with silver or copper...

Consumers are currently requesting commercial banks to manufacture 11 Billion dollars of new money a day...Which floods out into the domestic economy and is used by consumers as collateral to request more...

It's been standard operating procedure for centuries...And this past 60 years has been the longest it's ever been sustained...

Your current income is mostly composed of previously created debt and your future income is mostly composed of newly created debt...

The FED only facilitates the requests of the commercial banks who facilitate the requests of consumers...Once you all have requested all you can...Game over...No miracle...DOA...Thanks for showing up to planet Earth

Sorry folks no one is creating money out of thin air and giving it away for free...It's all at the request of the consumer and any money the Government blows was either taxed or borrowed from what the consumers requested to be created....

There will be no replay of 2000 to 2003...It's game over. This whole process that is reaching its logical conclusion began centuries ago...

Foreign nations use US dollars that were exported there by US consumers that bought imports from them then export some of them back to the USA...To buy US Treasuries to basically engineer interest rates which are set in the Treasury market so that US consumers can afford to continue requesting the required amount of US dollars needed by foreigners to sustain their export based economies...

Everything passed the point of no return in 1944...Since then foreigners have become more and more dependant upon US Consumers to request commercial banks to manufacture US dollars...

In 1944 US consumers were requesting commercial banks to manufacture 8 million dollars a day to sustain inflation and now US consumers are requesting 11 Billion a day to sustain inflation.

Without the required amount of inflation there is no way to sustain the delusional lifestyles of the wannabe rich and famous on planet Earth and since 1944 the USA has been the engine of inflation of Planet Earth.

The Federal Reserve banknote is backed by the consumer...

Has been since it first showed up...

Lets say I get a consumer to sign on the dotted line of a contract to basically supply me with a yield...

Top lives off the yield from the bottom in the absolute capitalist system.

Gold and siliver or any type of coins or money are also backed by the consumer...

Lets say I get a consumer to sign on the dotted line of a contract to basically supply me with a yield...

Then it's up to them to supply me with a yield and failure to do so allows me to take control of any collateral that the consumer used in order to obtain what they obtained from me...

In the case of a rental like a house...If they fail to supply the required yield I kick them out and replace them with someone more obedient...simple...

The collateral in that case is the use of the rental...

It's all just a game...A game you are all playing...Called take more than you give...It has a finite ability to be played...There eventually comes a point when the game ends...The game over point.

All you game players while you are playing the game think believe or have faith that it's never going to end...

While all you game players are playing it you all think believe or have faith you are winning...Until game over shows up then you become sore losers...

Some of you become disobedient and begin breaking the rules of the game and other game players then have to be tasked to deal with you...By either placing you in a cage or eliminating you from the game...

This game you are all playing functions the same regardless of what is used as money...You all are currently enjoying the benefits of the game with an expandable or dynamic money supply...It allows this blog to exist...

When the game is played with a static money supply most of you game players are illiterate grimy peasants in rags...

When the game with a dynamic money supply reaches the logical conclusion which is game over the vast majority of you begin to quickly return to your intrinsic value...Which unfortunately is at best slightly above worthless...

Sorry...

You all have been socially engineered and further deluded yourselves into thinking believing or having faith that you have worth or value as a game player...

Now go out there and sell yourselves...

I'm forced to play the game...But I know how to play it...I say to an employer who is just a self employed employee of the game...

Do you need Help? If the employer says yes...Then they have lost and I have won.

There is no self employed employee of the game that needs help...They want servants and slaves and just pretend to need help to acquire servants and slaves to power their delusions...

The poor game player is oblivious that when they finally demand obedience from their servant or slave that I already knew the logical conclusion would arrive and I put an end to the game that the game player was playing and foolishly thinking that they were winning or going to win.

Please tell me how a game can be played without creating sore losers...A game where everyone wins and no one will lose?

Well you could construct robots...Then deactivate them when you don't want them to play with you anymore...

You think I enjoy hurting other people's feelings?

Yes if you are in danger I will run to help you...You see I don't hate anyone...Because after all you all top to bottom bottom to top are poor unfortunates that popped into existence into an evil system that you did not create and ultimately you all are just doing what you have to according to the rules of the system to enjoy existence as long as possible...

You are not robots...You are entities that have freewill and can easily choose to do what I don't want you to...And I certainly can choose to do what you don't want me to do...

Sure your physical body ages...When is your awareness going to grow up?

Threat? You are all dangerous potential threats and there is nothing I can do except avoid you all as much as possible in real life...You all invest very little to no thought into your manipulations.

Soon the game is going reach the logical conclusion and the ability for the top to fund your continued existence will be game over and most of you will have to be liquidated...sorry...I did not create the game you are all playing...I just popped into existence within it...

The game does not require money...It has nothing to do with money ultimately...

Money is just a tool that allows taking more than you give to require less effort to accomplish and manage.

But the dynamic money supply has a finite ability to be expanded...Once inflation can no longer be sustained...game over...

And it's all the game players that have to sustain the inflation and when they reach the maximum potential to sustain inflation...Game over...

Now the game players ask me when is it going to be game over.

It's inevitable...And the winners always win and the losers always lose...

The beauty of game over is that you all are ignorant that it's game over until game over shows up and also ignorant that you spent your whole life playing to game over...

Prior to game over all the game players think they are winning the game they are all playing...It's the wonderful just think positive ignore the negative religion...All the game players ignore the negative until they can't any more...simple.

There just has to be a way to take more than you give forever Hyper...Nope sorry...

There is no way to construct a game where everyone wins and there are no sore losers...

All you can construct is a game where that's what appears to be happening...Also known as a temporary prosperity game.

The longer you prolong the temporary prosperity game the greater the amount of sore losers that will appear at the logical conclusion...The logical conclusion of every game is game over...

Look at Enron and all the employees...They were sore losers when the temporary prosperity game could not be prolonged any longer...The same thing is going to happen with the 314 year old global game you are all playing...It is really no different than Enron...Just larger and more complex.

It's inevitable.

The top has been giving you hints and warnings for years...The top also has been telling you that all those hints and warnings are the product of crazy people...

Why?

As I said you are not robots that can be deactivated when you are no longer needed......You are entities that have freewill and can choose...top to bottom bottom to top you all desire to exist as long as possible and fulfill all your hopes and dreams...

And if you choose wrong...It's your fault since you are the one that chose wrong...

I certainly have no power to choose what you or you all choose...

That's why you all are dangerous and potential threats...I myself am of course dangerous and a potential threat to all of you...

I'm not a slave or servant...I'm as free and powerful as a mortal can become...I'm still as finite and fragile as all of you though...

As for a new system? Sorry folks but you all invest massive effort into avoiding effort...

Allow a human being to take more power than they give and it's inevitable in time that the power of the many will be concentrated in the hands of the few or one...

The regime in the USA or top is composed of 20 Million persons that would consider any system that puts a limit on their ability to take more than they give or jeopardizes their position in the hierarchy a dire threat to their continued existence and would cause them to liquidate whatever number of liabilities are required to eliminate the threat...

No real pressure has been applied to any of you yet...Once you all are subjected to some actual pressure you all will cave in...

You all just have no idea what you are up against...

Your awareness is not a part of the Universe...And is not limited by the LAW of the Universe and that is why your schemes that you dream up inevitably fall to pieces when put into practice within the Universe...

Ultimately once you know the LAW of the Universe there is no choice but the right one...

I help people...That's all I do...I don't work for people...I'm not a servant or a slave and have no Master or Lord

Resist your masters all you want...Play that game...

I don't have a master to resist so I will not be playing that game.

I put an end to games...I don't start them...And your games are your games...I avoid them...And if you try to suck me in then I end it...

You all think there is a way to convince another human being to support you...Yes if the other is ignorant and then can be capitalized on...

Once You are not ignorant of truth there is no way to fool or force you...There is no way to reason with one who is not ignorant...

Game over...

GOD is not a game player...

Truth does not play games...

As a mortal that has freewill to choose...

Who or what could be my Master or Lord?

GOD is not a Master or Lord...GOD is GOD the infinite and indestructible source of all power that powers the infinite and indestructible...

Of which all that is finite and fragile depend upon to power their finite and fragile existence to its logical conclusion...

And I don't have to do anything to receive all the power a mortal could ever need to have...It is given without conditions...

The game you are all playing has conditions attached...The game you are all playing is absurd.

Yet you all have chosen to think, believe, and have faith that it's not...

Your choice to make not mine...

There is a war against Truth...Which you all are fighting...There is never a lasting victory over lies and the war against truth has no exit strategy and always ends in defeat...

The Universe is perfectly fair...Everything and everyone gets what it and they deserve and there is no hope...

It's not hopeless...There is no such thing as hope...It is just a cherished delusion that those that choose ignorance hope will protect them from the consequences of their choice...

If the top did not want you all to choose to hope they would have told you all it does not exist but then they could not capitalize on that weakness...

Ignorance of truth is the root of all evil...

Hope all you want...

I sure hope 1+1 equals 2...

I sure hope 1+1 equals 3...

See there is no Hope it's a delusion...

Regardless of what you all hope happens prior to it happening what will happen is going to happen...

And you all are working hard supplying power to the top to make it happen...

I sure hope the top rewards us all for all the power we suck from the bottom to supply to the top to power the game we are all playing to its logical conclusion...Which is game over...

Yes the winners always win and the losers always lose...

I sure hope the top created a game where they lose and the bottom wins...

Well so far for 1000's and 1000's of years the bottom always loses and the top always wins because it's the same game you all have been playing for 1000's and 1000's of years...

I sure hope this time is different...I sure hope 1+1=3

I'm sorry but due to the construction of the Universe the game you are all playing has the same logical conclusion every time you choose to play it...

I sure hope the game does not reach the logical conclusion like all the other times...

Like I said all you game players can hope all you want...Just think positive and ignore the negative until of course you can't ignore truth any longer...

The whole game you are playing is imaginary and all you are doing is trying to imagine a better imaginary game than the current imaginary game which as far as imaginary games go is the best one ever...

You will have to break the rules of the current imaginary game to set up the game board of your imaginary game and the current owners of the imaginary game you are playing are not going to play your game if it causes you to win and them to lose...

There is another choice...Stop being a game player...

33 comments:

777clear said...

Or you can play games where all the players involved win.

skip sievert said...

The Technate design, energy accounting system, is an accounting system only.
It is not a Price System reward and punishment method that relies on maintaining a scarcity based money system for people control.

The Price System uses money as the basic unit of manipulation and coercion, money or debt tokens also control our dysfunctional political and judicial system as well.

When debt tokens are the arbiter of decision, something that measures nothing real is being used.
These wrong choices pile up in terms of resource destruction and environmental devastation and also bring the consequences of negative manipulation by those holding abstract concepts.

The Scientific Answer The Technate Energy Accounting system is the only viable instrument of distribution which can be used in this Continent's emerging era of abundance -- the progress of which is being sped up by automation. This Energy Accounting system provides the means whereby each individual North American can express their individual preference as to what they want of the products North America is capable of producing.
That is its function -- to record the demand for goods and services and thereby, to determine the amount to be produced. By applying one specific technological measuring device, production and consumption can be balanced and the first specification for social harmony is immediately achievable.

Consume With Meaning

The only real choice is consuming power. With an abundance of consuming power, we can consume as often as we like, every day of the year, and always win our choice within the context of sustainable abunundance.

Energy Accounting eliminates both the basis and the need of all social work and charity.

It would reduce crime to but a small fraction of what exists today.

If you don't like the war, the poverty, the misery, the waste, the crime, the disease, and the corruption which the Price System spawns, why do you stick with it? Technate - An Idea For Now Stephen L. Doll.

skip sievert said...

Part of a future writing project that relates.

The Barley Standard

In case it’s not obvious, this meant that during hard times one could literally eat the family savings.

The early Mesopotamians used a weight of barley as their first currency. It seems important to point out to the modern reader, accustomed as they must be to the way modern currency works, that this money was different from the money of today in some very important ways.
It was an actual edible commodity that could be used to make soup, bread and beer, for one thing, and for another, it was prone to decay: pests ate it, it tended to rancidity if kept for too long, and so on.

Consider the staying power of a pure service (gone immediately), a loaf of bread (can be held for a couple of days), a pot of barley (a year or two), a suit of clothes (a few years), a bronze plow-blade (a decade or more), and, at the extreme end of the durability continuum, the land itself (seemingly eternal at the time).

This latter property of the currency was shared with most goods in the economy, all of which fell somewhere along a continuum of impermanence. The impermanent nature of these goods is linked to the underlying ecosystem from which all value ultimately arises; everything that wasn’t made of sand (pottery) or metal (tools and jewelry) was the direct product of sunlight and bio-mass, and consequently subject to unavoidable near-term wear and decay.

The harmony between the nature of the goods in the market and the nature of the currency meant that — although incomes were far from equal — no one could get very rich because their money would lose its value within a couple of years.

This storage problem was carefully studied by those with high incomes, particularly the Priest Kings who — though a small hereditary minority — received a tithe from every producer in the community. Their surplus income was so large that they were unable, even with the technologies of beer and cheese, to store all the commodities they received.

Literally “barley weight” in Akkadian; it was both a unit of currency and a unit of weight, just as the British Pound was originally a unit denominating a one pound mass of silver.

The modern currency of Israel is also called the shekel. This word is originally from Sumer and meant a weight of barley.

You probably won’t be surprised to learn that the idea of taking a smaller cut didn’t occur to the ruling class of ancient Mesopotamia. Instead, some time between 3,000BCE and 2,500BCE it was decided that temple taxes would only be accepted in the most expensive and durable commodity known at the time: silver.

They chose silver for this purpose because, unlike barley, silver doesn’t spoil. These new silver weights, called shekels, were the prototype for the other currencies of the Ancient Near East.

stone weights were used to measure one mina (60 shekels) worth of silver (c. 1300BCE).

Abstract Value

Interestingly, similar arm-band money was used in Africa until the 1940s.

Metal currency at least 2,000 years before Croessus of Lydia.

Silver’s practical value to the ancients was essentially nil, but — rather like the peacock’s tail — the ability to expend resources on adornments was an important status marker.
Silver’s value was derived entirely from its uselessness and scarcity.

As if to make the wealth-status connection as obvious as possible, the Sumerians — who never minted coins — pioneered Bronze Age bling in the form of spiral silver armbands in even multiples of the shekel.
Actual Barley was still used as small change during this period.

Silver quickly became the primary currency of the rich, who could now “store value” indefinitely.

We should pause here for a moment to make very clear the problem they were trying to solve and the nature of the solution. A small minority controlled such a large share of the society’s resources, so much more than they could consume, that they were forced to waste excess commodities, thus they sought to overcome the natural limitations of ecological productivity using a mixed metaphor in which short-lived organic commodities were “converted” into long-lived metallic ones.

Any way... some historical aspects of money. Gold by the way can now be extracted from sea water in an industrial process... so as a Libertarian pipe dream.. that is also ultimately an illusion.
Oil also can be manufactured from carbon material like trees and grass... so the basis of the dollar ''value''.. really oil... is not really real any more either.

Anonymous said...

why do you want to QQ just cause we arent the top? Is this blog just a whine for more trickle down? Just go work for what you can, dont get ripped off. Learn who to trust and who not to. Dont look for hand outs you dont deserve. When we are born in this world we hope to get enough to survive. Just think about all those who dont when you eat your dinner. Think about the ones who have never seen a computer much less a blog saying how we all will be squished like bugs from the top.

Just get over it. You were not born rich, you are still wealthy.

Anonymous said...

During expansion things get produced that last a long time, like durable buildings, lasting memes that are worthwhile, and during contraction not all of these things get destroyed. This leaves the earth with a net PLUS that was achieved by real work and thought. So with every "end of game", the top manages to seize the real stuff and protect it long enough for the game to start again, and therefore "progress" is salvaged. So by using the money expansion process that hyper has talked about, I see this as a shortcut method to achieve this "progress" at the expense of violent contraction periods where many people get crushed. If one believes in reincarnation to any extent then maybe this "quick" method helps humanity's progress quicken, and therefore helps us reach the stars faster in human form? Can anyone make the argument that "average human suffering" is less in 2008 than it was in 1008? If you can, then this money "game" is actually working. Is it not?

skip sievert said...

No it is not working and only if we go back to a low energy civilization will it work.
That won't work either really though.
To many people. At least right now.
Your concept of ''hard work'' is an antique and you sound like an Adam Smith graduate in nonsense. Trickle down? Huh?

Inanimate energy Appliances.

The fact that we get motive power now from machines and extraneous energy rather than human muscle power as in the past makes it possible to run an engine, stove, jet or dynamo, and is one reason why literal human slavery became obsolete in the early part of the Industrial revolution.

It became too expensive to maintain humans in regard to their labor contribution.
It became pointless within the context of the Price System to literally enslave humans when machines could do most of the work in a more energy efficient way. Since the Price System is all about making money and social control, the so called morality of enslaving other humans was never the root issue.

Money making is always the root issue in a Price System.


Because of our various energy production and delivery systems now and the myriad designs which convert that power into desired functions, each person has many inanimate energy appliances working on their behalf 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Unlike the human slaves that were used in the past such energy converting machines do not suffer, tire, complain, or run away.


Slavery in the industrialized world disappeared shortly after the release of coal power and the steam engine.

Human slave owners understood that human slaves required a lot of overhead in money or debt tokens to maintain and the new machines did not.


Because a humans output (about 1/20th of a horsepower, around 36 watts) became more expensive than machine power to maintain and would not allow then for a Price System profit, slavery was abolished and those human slaves then made into wage slaves to join the already working free wage slaves.


Instead of being owned as private property and bought and sold on a contractual civil law basis, human slaves were given wage slave status instead in the class system of modern North America.

It remains for the future to also free the wage slaves from their unfortunate position.

The Technate design does that as it eliminates this ancient feature of the Price System (wages).

The transition from a scarcity based human labor system, class control system, to an abundance based scientific social system has begun.
The transition point of mechanical energy surpassing human generated energy occurred in the United States in about 1913 : Technate - An Idea For Now Stephen L. Doll.

People in North America have multiple inanimate energy appliances working around the clock on each persons behalf.

Operating a Technate is determined by the amount of energy made available in the context of sustainable abundance and resource protection.

People consume energy to perform their desired activity and in the process of contributing to society.

Energy availability = desires of a consuming public being fulfilled within that context of getting what they care to get in relation to sustainable abundance.

What kind of a system are we using today in the U.S. and the world ? : I am the Price System - essay.

The Price System we use is a throwback to a time of low energy conversion and by necessity was based on human labor or outright theft instead of abundant mechanical energy, as is available today.
Presently we use only 1/3 of the potential of what we are generating in our electrical grid. That means we have the potential of 2/3rds more use.
For every 3 watts generated, we are using one, leaving 2 watts available for further conversion.

In other words there is no shortage of electrical energy and electrical energy is the source of abundance for this culture.

Our current Price System was and is designed as a human manipulation construct from a time of scarcity and dependence on human labor.
Politics is a construct to enforce and make palatable civil society law, that concept is based on private property and civil contract control. This Price System method employs a class system using money as a method of coercion and forced motivation (civil contracts) and democracy (special interest groups).


A real education can not be gotten at easily in the Price System because that system depends on inculcating concepts in the form of propaganda (public relations) rather than actual education concerning the mechanism of how our system works in reality. : Technate design and Price System Politics.

Many of the concepts that are regarded as somehow beneficial in todays society such as the current ideas of `` Democracy ', are actually a form of special interest control that employ debt tokens (money interests) and this is in effect a vehicle for a civil contract of idea slavery used to insure conformity and sociological concepts, such as morality, ethics, aesthetics, etc.

Technate design precludes special interest control, therefore the idea of voting in a Technate is a non-starter.

It can not be, because voting gives special interest groups a vehicle of control and that is another type of Price System control mechanism that would negate the scientific management of the Technate.

The Technate design is based on scientific functional governance and is not a political system.

Energy units or certificates can not be used to control or manipulate people in a context of so called voting as in a Price System, as any kind of a voting system is controlled by special interest groups. Special interest control is only another Price System function which defeats scientific management.

Energy Accounting is only an accounting system and not a substitute for the concepts of a monetary system. It is an inventory management control only and not a people manipulation vehicle.
The Technate design eliminates the need and purpose of our current money based Price System.

It is incorrect to compare era's in history as you have done.

Energy consumption was flat lined until the steam engine was invented.

Human ''work'' as you put it was the basis of this system. Work gangs brainwashed with bad info.

No longer needed.
A new social system is needed.

skip sievert said...

Purchasing power is destroyed by extraneous energy. Mechanical energy does ''work'' as we used to think of it.
Technology destroys the Price System.

And there has been plenty of warning about that.

Productivity is not measured in human motive power. It is measured in machine power.
Wage slaves then stand about... and perhaps get hungry and perhaps create social change... for better or worse.
One viable alternative is available.
Countdown to chaos.
Tick tick tick...

mannfm11 said...

I am amazed this went right by them. There is no price system. There is only a fractional reserve system that was present today, was present 100 years ago and present as long as man has been around. Moses wrote about it in the old testiment and forbade it, but it seems like we tempt fate over and over again.

What this blog is? It isn't to whine for more trickle down. It is clear that you haven't a clue about compound interest or exponential expansion of anything. Expand 1.01 to the 2000th power then tell me that a compound interest scheme of any kind has ever held up. What does this have to do with that? The last time I did it, it was something like a quadrillion dollars if you did it on a penny. What is this, but the compound interest of 1% for the time since Christ on a penny. We didn't make this game. It appears that anonymous thinks he is in the realm of the top. Sievert thinks this is about price. It is about the capacity of the credit system to continue to expand or die and it cannot expand when its system of expansion isn't credible. The Presidential candidates are telling us they can stop this foreclosure mess and the markets are more bullish than they were at the top. They can't stop this because the system is out of collateral. There is no mathematical solution that keeps the game going. Hyper says get out of the game, as there are going to be a lot of sore losers.

Anonymous said...

If this is indeed been orchestrated from the "top" and always has been, then the "top" also is aware of the long term plans and implications. Civilization has gone through multiple phases and yet we haven't totally collapsed even in the contraction phases. In the end, or to our present day, civilization has thrived and population has grown. This is a fact. So, regardless if there have been mostly losers and a few big winners, (of course there have), but has civilization, on average over 6000 years, expanded and thrived? Yes! We may go through another violent contraction, but imagine 1000 years from now....a new system will be in place of course, but it may be similar to what we have now, an expansion/contraction game that although has major highs and lows, produces continued and fast progress relative to a static money system. It won't be "fair" ever, and top will always pull the strings, but that's inevitable. It's survival of the fittest minds going on, the fittest minds put themselves on top long ago and they are not about to have idiots take over. The masses will NEVER have equal say in what goes on. Why? The masses, by default, are stupid, and prey to the most idiotic ideas (religious fanaticism, knee-jerk solutions to problems, only base knowledge). Some INDIVIDUALS have brilliant ideas, and hopefully some of those rise to the top, but I don't WANT the "mass mentality" in charge, do you? The masses in charge, becomes a MOB in charge. That's worse than what we have now. Those truly in charge know full well what is coming and there will be a mass culling to be sure, but so what. Cullings have been going on since man first sprang on the scene. Guess what, we are still here and thriving. Who do we owe that to?

skip sievert said...

Hello La la land resident.
'''I am amazed this went right by them. There is no price system. There is only a fractional reserve system that was present today, was present 100 years ago and present as long as man has been around. Moses wrote about it in the old testiment and forbade it, but it seems like we tempt fate over and over again.'''

Did you look at any of the links given?
I can give you information but only god can make you think.

If you put a five on a piece of paper then you have a 5... put a zero behind it and then you have 50 and then you can tell someone it is worth 50.... and they may believe you .. in a money sense.

"""Moses wrote about it in the old testiment and forbade it, but it seems like we tempt fate over and over again. ''''

What the pfuck are you talking about?

The Political establishment invented the Religious establishment.
Civil contract society comes from Babylon... as Hammurabi codes etc.

Without knowing any history how do you expect to understand any of this?

There is a viable alternative for North America.
It does not use a Price System.

It is not connected to fractionated any thing like in your mind.

You are brainwashed currently.

Energy measurement is not a replacement for a monetary system

It is not a reward and punishment or wage slave method.

""""Guess what, we are still here and thriving. Who do we owe that to?'''''
Mostly we owe it to having had a large resource base that was hard to destroy.
We are on the tipping point now of destroying it so this time is different from your fantasy of Ayn Rand... money economics... and conspiracy theory of ''secret smart groups''

I find the last couple of comments pathetically anti human... especially the last one... while this blog throws up some ideas I see the fan base or perhaps the people even writing this stuff can not see a real alternative.. and really just seem to be a part of the divide and conquer mentality that is destroying things.

There really is no hope in a Political Price System method.

Anonymous said...

Creating a very long-term (talking 6000 years) sustainable situation where humans go from 60,000 to 6,000,000,000 is hardly anti-human. When you look at the BIG picture, the "top" considers "What is sustainable LONG-term?" Patience is a virtue. Short-sightedness is a fatal move. When you consider the word "sustainable", that encompasses the entire spectrum of resources AND ideas. For instance, is religious fanaticism "sustainable" in terms of further growth (physical and mental) of the human species? Not at this point anymore, we have reached the point of outgrowing it, so it will be eliminated. It's now not a help but a hinderance. Is the oil world "sustainable"? No, so it will be replaced with something else and not because we are running out of oil. It's simply time to transition to a more efficient means. etc....

skip sievert said...

Your jumbling things anon.

Change for better or worse will happen yes.

Jim Jones and his cult drank the kool-aid... but that story ended badly.
A morose fatalistic attitude really does not help.

Getting good information as to the type and method of change can help.

If the transition is just to another form of backward social control with only a different medium of propaganda... then where is the creativity there?

Since 98% of people do not understand the current dynamic and will be dragged along... why not drag them along in a secular humanitarian system... and not one based on crap control and manipulation?

It appears you do not understand the dynamic of change and history.

We were flat lined for nearly 6.000 years yes ... because of the low rate of energy conversion.

Humans can put out about 1/20th. of a horse power of energy.
We have not used human energy to power our civilization except to a dwindling degree.. since about 1913.
You refrigerator uses a 1/4 horsepower motor.
We are in a totally different era where money economics will no longer work.
Unless you pay people money not to work ... and really what is the point of that except to continue the antique Price System that is based on fraud and deceit.

skip sievert said...

When private property and civil contracts are no longer the basis of society, much of what we think of as crime is also eliminated. Technate design. Some basic facts.

Anonymous said...

http://facstaff.bloomu.edu/mwood/humanpopulationanswers-551.html

This is steady growth above, and the time when central banks became prevalent, yes, population then took off on an even greater upwards curve. You make my point. When the system of "creating money out of nothing" was put into full force, population skyrocketed. So one could argue that despite the roller-coaster, population excels in our current central banking system. The system allows a blank check for wide sweeping machines to "create" with the help of the masses of labor. It's the secret to creation and progress. The internet is part of this machine and has allowed the smarter humans to connect in a knowledge network allowing exponential learning to occur.

Anonymous said...

Sievert; I hear you. BUT what makes you even dare to hope that your system would be propagated by the TOP.

To what advantage would it be to them? History will repeat; birth, growth, stagnation, death.

skip sievert said...

You know that if you follow your nose to information you already think you know... you just confirm your bias and you are another victim of others regurgitated nonsense.

I am giving you new information.

You do not understand the dynamic.
About energy and energy conversion and population...yields in food and oil production and the green revolution as to the source of the huge population.
You are having an Ayn Rand wet dream of the glory and power of a piece of paper... or shell ... which in the first place was designed for people control manipulation.
It worked yes... but only up to a certain point does it work.

You are thinking through the box of scarcity based money and economic systems. The Price System is scarcity based.. scarcity must be maintained.

It did not have a pfucking thing to do with central banks except as propaganda and social control... it had to do with the use of extraneous mechanical energy so... try to rouse yourself out of your libertarian slumber.

The masses of labor? .. are out of business with Technology... or else the same dumbed down price system continues while preventing technology from helping people other than the upper caste.
Purchasing power is destroyed because humans are put out of business by technology mechanization.

''''. It's the secret to creation and progress. '''''

Thats the problem with your brand of Price System propaganda... you do not understand even how it works.. why it works... and that it will not work in the future except in a Diary of the Dead mode.

It may have worked when energy conversion was low as it was for 6.000 years... but once that steam engine and cotton gin came about ... and then electricity production.. it puts what you are talking about in strictly 18th. category.
In other words ... I am giving you new information and you are not processing it yet.
You are brainwashed with a certain aspect of thinking ... I have met many people like you.
When I snap my fingers you will wake up... SNAP~!~

skip sievert said...

''''''Sievert; I hear you. BUT what makes you even dare to hope that your system would be propagated by the TOP.

To what advantage would it be to them? History will repeat; birth, growth, stagnation, death.'''''''

Number one it is not my system. The greatest flowering of Scientific thought of the 20th century came up with it. I am only someone that is a social activist. The Technical Alliance came up with these ideas. They were notable... not me.
I just look for people that may be of help and try and enlist that these ideas may come about.

The people at the TOP are ignorant... and as has been said here do not understand the dynamic either... but will suffer as the bottom collapses which is soon...

We are not trying to appeal to all... Only people capable of understanding our ideas.
That leaves out approx. 98% in current America... but that is ok. Our information is known on very high levels.
We created Fema originally in the late 30's and by '48 it was ready to go. That is why Bush and Congress (Dems) disposed of it.
It was a gateway to the Technate.
Total Conscription and then a non monetary system.
The original Fema suspended rents utilities and mortgages for the entire U.S. indefinitely in a state of emergency such as we are rapidly headed for.
Once the emergency started the Fema director took over. The Political system was then out of business.
This is why Fema was gutted... and placed under homeland defense.. so that the political price system would still be in control during the coming collapse.
There were 17 Technocrats in F.D.R.'s cabinet group.
Why? Because at that time we were the fastest growing social movement in the U.S. .... that was around '34 through '38. Also they were hard core scientists and that was important in those days.

Take the futile eastern edge off what you are saying off.

Why look down into that deep well?

Americans were unique and came up with the most unique approach to a scientific social design that was so ahead of its time that people are still scratching their heads over it.
Now is the time to get involved and tell people about it again.
It is viable.
It is even easier to implement now than before because the data is easier to work with.
It is based on thermodynamics.
It gets us off this god awful merry go round.

Remember Anon the system you are describing started at a certain time ... and was made to a certain purpose.
We do not have to use it now.
The TOP as you call them are really ignorant and we are on automatic pilot ... or just floating down the Price system river.
Dare ? Well if you want to be a social activist... and you want to actually present a reality based viable solution... then that is not really a dare.
Its just that the consequences of embracing a negative or fatalistic approach... as you seem to be.. really kills everyone.. for no particular reason except the original brainwashed set up.
There is no reason to use that system any more.
It kills every one and then ourselves.

Anonymous said...

Interesting comments about fima. I'd not heard that before. But again, based on the outcome and in support of my previous comment the TOP rules. ie They gutted it. Somebody is still awake at the helm..don't you think?

Still an interesting idea though. That you know of, are there any technocrats in the current administration and/or is there any major players in support of the technate system?

Anonymous said...

The top is not for complete justice, but I do believe they are for continuity of the human race, albeit to their liking.

Why is the "top" at the top?

Why will the "top" never be completely "just" to the bottom?

If the best thing for the "top" to do for the masses requires them to relinquish power, will it ever get done?

You can talk forever about the best system to use, but unless there is an all powerful 3rd party entity making the "top" do it, it won't get done. And the masses are way to easily steered and confused to oblivion to cause any popular movement to succeed. Any "popular" movement will be media-constructed to the liking of the "top". Just look at the crimes, in plain site, of current world leaders....the people are completely impotent and apathetic against leadership without a 24/7 media blitz to get them worked up. Unless you can convince the top that they can increase their power with a new system (your best chance), it just won't happen. Infighting at the top will be the only hinderance to their long-term plans. But dream on. That's what they like you to do.

skip sievert said...

Many people are aware of our program. They have to be if they want to understand what is actually happening.
The war colleges... think tanks... intelligence agency groups are aware of us.
The Technocracy Study Course is one jumping off point for people curious to understand the actual dynamic of the system.
Many then use it to propagate their own versions of fake alternative.

-----Unless you can convince the top that they can increase their power with a new system (your best chance), it just won't happen. Infighting at the top will be the only hinderance to their long-term plans. But dream on. That's what they like you to do.-------

Again here you are wrong and looking down the deep well again. This is the basic point where Hyper Tiger is failing.
The system of Technate design is administration by science.. and does not use an oligarchic people control system based on opinion or belief.
That makes it completely different.. and because of the historical aspect of energy conversion as its basis.... unprecedented in the history of humanity.
This system eliminates the Oligarchy that you are referencing.
That antique system does not and and can not work in the future in the Price System method because of mechanization destroying purchasing power.
Am I getting through here?
The basis of the old system no longer works.
As a research and educational group we are not a revolutionary group to make people do things.
People may do these things and we provide the ammunition of thoughts and ideas.
We do not have an assumption to power theory.
Only make the information available for social change.... as we have since 1934 when our Technocracy Study Course was published.

As far as who is to put this method into operation we do not care... and we have a number of plans and have had plans in the past such as Fema. We also have other plans and ideas concerning that.

Again if real social activism is the aim of this site then a real and viable alternative... not based on morals... ethics.. or aesthetic opinion is the best approach.

There is no accounting for opinion.
There is no accounting for belief.

Survival is the issue... and this program is good by default. Not because people claim it is good.

skip sievert said...

Some of the background history of our group as to time and place.
Howard Scott - History and Purpose of Technate design.

Anonymous said...

***Why is the "top" at the top?****

Like Hyper said (paraphrased) they learned early how to control the land and food. And eventually gained control of all the resources

***Why will the "top" never be completely "just" to the bottom?***

Again like Hyper said (para) the top are users/taking more than they give. They do only what is necessary to meet their own goals.

****If the best thing for the "top" to do for the masses requires them to relinquish power, will it ever get done?***

NOPE.

Anonymous said...

Skip said "That antique system does not and and can not work in the future in the Price System method because of mechanization destroying purchasing power."

What do you think wars are for? Look at Iraq. The price system will be booming over there in a year or so. The next war will probably reestablish it more firmly worldwide for the next 6000 yrs because the weaponry is more sophisticated and will do more damage. We'll probably be back to the pre-industrial stage. At leat those that survive.

Anonymous said...

Realize this, what if the "Top" gives up power. It obviously just creates a new top. You folks better ride the ride or hope for a quick evolutional change to hit. Thinking about it, predicting it, wanking about it is not going to change it. Either enjoy the ride or QQ about it you are still on it none the less. I would suggest that if you want to make a difference then turn to your neighbor and be his slave. Or better yet be his friend and hope it reciprocates. Telling him its all wrong wont do much good.

skip sievert said...

I am getting sick of dead end advice anon.

Most of what you give up as ''ideas'' that relate, do not relate for historical reasons.

There is no real Illuminis... they are mostly just people being rewarded for bad behavior.

We were rewarded with an expanding Price System because we killed a million people and made 3 million homeless in Iraq. Because we played by the queens rules.

We have bumpered up on the edge of our resource base now.. and war no longer works as a for profit venture except as a quick fix.

The ''Top'' does not understand what is going on. Why turn this into a mystery ?

They are a part of the 98% of people that are clueless... and that includes yourselves here.

You are playing the part of victims in an eastern style drama of suffering and slavish ''looking up to a top'' when reality is there is no real top... just ignorant people.

Religion originally was an inside joke designed to control people for commercial reasons.

It is no longer the case that we need to turn people into believing robots.

As an educational and research group ... this is information about what is really happening. Not your fantasy about the powers that be.

''''''What do you think wars are for? Look at Iraq. The price system will be booming over there in a year or so. The next war will probably reestablish it more firmly worldwide for the next 6000 yrs because the weaponry is more sophisticated and will do more damage. We'll probably be back to the pre-industrial stage. At leat those that survive.--------
The infrastructure of the country is destroyed.
The next war if nuclear may kill hundreds of millions and further pollute the environment... and you are passively endorsing it
You are glamorizing people like James Kunstler who is a kind of egoistic idiot with his scaring people to sell books and self aggrandizing blather about his version of the future.
He is anti-intellectual.
You have been exposed to way to much crap information.
Now you have been exposed to good information.
There are a lot of stupid smart people though.
Mainstream uncreative discourse that dead ends in a kind of eastern haze is what I am feeling so far here.
Thats fine. I do not need you.
Now that you have been exposed to something real it may sink in after a while.
In the mean time fasten your seat belt because the crash test is coming.
I do not see how this blog as it is now has any particular purpose except to rub the noses of people that come here in mainstream and uncreative vantage to what is happening.
Too passive like waiting for an executioner to arrive who is a little late.
It is all very eastern and unattractive.
It is unwise.
Not when creative alternatives are available.

skip sievert said...

This is the source of religion as we know it. This is an excerpt from the Sumer creation myth.

''In a creation epic written in the early second millennium B.C.
mankind is created this way:

"Blood I will mass and cause bones
to be. I will establish a savage; "man" shall be his name. Verily,
savage man I will create. He shall be charged with the service of
the Gods that they might be at ease! The ways of the Gods I will
artfully alter. Though alike revered, into two (groups) they shall be
divided."

Mankind was created in this myth from the blood of a rebel god that the
other gods killed to free themselves.
Then this story proceeds...

After Ea had created mankind and imposed upon it the service
of the Gods; these newly created humans said this, "now, O Lord,
Thou who hast caused our deliverance, what shall be our homage
to thee?
Let us build a shrine whose name shall be called 'Lo, a
chamber for our nightly rest'; Let us repose in it! Let us build a
throne, a recess for his abode! "Like that of lofty Babylon, whose
buildings you have requested they set up in it an abode for Marduk,
Enlil and Ea.
These Gods said, "Let our sovereignty be surpassing;
having no rival.
May we shepherd the black-headed ones, our
creatures, to the end of days, without forgetting, let them acclaim
our ways.
We order the black-headed to revere us. May the subjects
ever bear in mind their God, and may they at His word pay heed to
the Goddess; may food offerings be borne for their Gods and
Goddesses. Without fail let them support their Gods! Their lands let
them improve, build their shrines. Let the black-headed wait on
their Gods."

This is the origin of what passes for the most
part of western religious tradition, those traditions originating in Sumeria.

Earlier in the myth is the phrase; "O Lord, spare the life of him who
trusts thee, but pour out the life of the God who seized evil."

This tale from the Old Babylonian period was the most
significant expression of religious literature of Mesopotamia…

The above is the origin of our so called conventional approach of political and belief system control that we use now to administer society.
This method of trickery and control is the stock and trade of the Political Price system method. It has been applied ruthlessly for a long time. Originally it was meant as an inside joke among the people that invented it and was to be used merely as a method to control people.
For many it has taken on a life of its own though now. Human gullibility and suggestibility have made that happen. This also has been inculcated to the purpose of maintaining Price System Political control.

Anonymous said...

I think all of you should be more thankful for what you do have and the oportunities you have in your life. I wonder what a Jewish survivor of the Nazi death camps would have to say about the crap yall spew. Hope is all they had. There is no hope, then jump off a bridge or try a different direction. No hope = fail.

skip sievert said...

Are you an ordinary troll or one with a purpose?

Anonymous said...

Right now my purpose is to find out how or why you "hopeless- society is going to end" folks have the time or inspiration to try to spread your message? And why would you want to spread your message of hopelessness? Its almost like the bum holding the sign saying the world is going to end. Here is an interesting fact... we are all going to die. Thats about as bad as it can get. Some even want to think it can get worse after. I think dieing is pretty much the end of things. At least in this world. So no matter what, after I die then I dont have to worry about anything concerning the top. Instead of promoting loss of hope, at least try to promote something that will help you live or cope. Better to live as a slave than to not live at all. And the term slave is used way to loosely by most of you folks. If I am free to go make knuckle children when I get home then I dont consider myself a slave just because I work for my keep. Even if we didnt have society the food isnt going to drop out of the sky like mana from heaven. You will more than likely go hungry. Even if you were the "top" guess what... life takes effort.

Anonymous said...

Basically we are animals. You can hate our existance or your existance but fact is we exist until we die. Society is the way we exist. Society will always be there until the last human dies. It may change but its not going away anytime soon.

Anonymous said...

Sievert; You make some very stimulating and thought provoking comments. I actually read them all. I'd like to surmise however that perhaps you're wrong about this blog being of no purpose. The last post "there is no hope" is concluding with the same points you make. "the price system is basically evil and/or inhumane" and thus flawed.

Hypers last sentence in this post said 'stop playing the game'. Isn't that your conclusion also? Isn't that essentially what you're saying too?.

I for one don't think your time spent here was completely wasted.

Anonymous said...

I just wondered if slaves spent all day long whining about being slaves? I bet Paris Hilton whines enought for all of us "slaves".

skip sievert said...

Ok... a key here is the thought that really everyone loses in the current game. No doubt about that. Globalism collapses... resource destruction multiplies.. wars rage...
The Top is destroyed as well as the bottom.
So that theory can be thrown out the window.
About the Top.
They are hapless victims... many of which do not know their you know whats from a hole in the ground.
They are on auto-pilot.

Living in an upper control class is useless when surrounded... like in a zombie movie.

Through countless centuries man has found his own security in the insecurity of others, has found his own economic and cultural haven at the expense of poverty and subservience in the majority, has found that a higher station in life was possible only for the few, not the multitude.

Throughout man's history a gigantic effort has been going on to erase from the face of the earth all evil between individuals, groups, and nations.
The approach has been an attempt at reforming and converting the individual with the hope that sufficient numbers of "good" men and women gathered in all lands might allow a lasting agreement upon the existing physical conflicts to be achieved.

There is no need to picture here the futility of this approach and its very evident failure to accomplish the idealistic dreams.

It is perhaps one of the major ironies of history that a new and the only adequate approach should have been projected and offered by certain interpreters of applied physical science who distinctly disclaim as their motivating force all idealistic searches for truth, love, peace, harmony, and other imponderables (Technocracy Technate Design).
In other words a science based society free of special interest groups and money... is a way out.

''''''Sievert; You make some very stimulating and thought provoking comments. I actually read them all. I'd like to surmise however that perhaps you're wrong about this blog being of no purpose. The last post "there is no hope" is concluding with the same points you make. "the price system is basically evil and/or inhumane" and thus flawed.

Hypers last sentence in this post said 'stop playing the game'. Isn't that your conclusion also? Isn't that essentially what you're saying too?.

I for one don't think your time spent here was completely wasted.'''''''''

Yes... there is some good poetry here. My mission here is to present a viable alternative and perhaps one that has not been discussed and which people have not been exposed to.
So yes because some of Hyper Tigers ideas are consistently intelligent I am adding another ingredient which may make known alternative information that is viable alternative... in other words... there is something we can do... and its to bring new attention to a creative... science designed social system that will work in North America for starters.