How do you sustain growth of the economy if the money supply does not grow?
From 1944 to now the rate of growth of the total money supply has been about 7.5% per year...Meaning that you lend out 1 Dollar in 1944 at roughly 7.5% yield per year and 64 years later you would have $102.36
Or let's say the total money supply of 400 Billion US dollars in 1944 basically cycles through the same process and keeps getting acquired and then relent back into circulation every year at roughly 7.49% for 64 years...You will need a money supply of 41 Trillion dollars to support that.
So without a continually expanding money supply there is no way to sustain the top who live off the yield from the bottom...
So forget the FEDERAL RESERVE you have to eliminate the belief that attaching interest to the medium of exchange is good.
Attaching interest to the medium of exchange is the cause of the FEDERAL RESERVE...
The FEDERAL RESERVE did not create compounding interest.
Well then what created Interest attached to the medium of exchange?
RICH PEOPLE. You kinda have to be in a position where you have piles of money to lend back to the people that slaved their asses off supplying it to you to be able to attach interest to it...
So then as soon as you start going around telling RICH PEOPLE that what they are doing is wrong...you are DOA.
Under a static monetary system if it was implemented now...There could be no yields greater than mine output and the population would have to be drastically reduced back to pre commercial banking levels...But civilization as you comprehend it has been as dependant upon compound interest as you are on eating and breathing for over 1000+ years and while the FED is significant...it is only 1 Central bank of over 100 in the 314 year old Global branch network...The current Global economic system is as dependant upon the 314 year old global credit system to sustain it's continued existence as you are on eating and breathing...
Here is the key...IF YOU ALL DESIRE THE 314 YEAR OLD SYSTEM ABOLISHED THEN YOU BETTER BE PREPARED TO KISS CIVILIZATION AS YOU KNOW IT GOODBYE...
Because without a functional credit system the whole global system that you currently see in operation can not function at all...can not exist.
Can you imagine existing without the possibility of interest attached to the medium of exchange?
Well you all better...Because that is just one thing that currently exists that must be eliminated to avoid the implosion...
The implosion that is currently in progress can't be avoided...but the next one can...and to accomplish that simple feat...Interest attached to the medium of exchange is one of the things that human beings do that they have to stop doing.
And if you tell me that you can have your cake and eat it too and create a system that does not inflate to maximum potential and implode but allows interest attached to the medium of exchange...
You are either a liar or a moron...
Top sucks from the bottom...The top lives off the yield from the bottom. It's been like this forever and will continue just as long.
Does the top of the structure support the bottom or does the bottom of the structure support the top? Does the foundation support the roof or does the roof support the foundation?
If you are a slave or a subject...Does calling you a person or citizen change anything? No.
The Government will have a very hard time confiscating my ability to work...They would have to kill me to stop me
And the gold was confiscated to pay the Europens who demanded payment of the debts that the US population owed when the post WW1 looting of Germany carry trade collapsed and imploded the global system causing the Great depression...
This time around no one is owed gold...they are owed dollars...
So I can't see why there would be a confiscation...and even if there was for some bizzare reason the amount of people that would be affected is a very small fraction of the population.
The monetary system is not fraudulent...In a hard currency system you would be kept in some sort of slaves quarters with the rest of the slaves...and your master would pay any mortgage on it...
Whether the money is composed of electromagnetic polarity differentials on hard disk platters, paper, Gold, and/or silver...It's still a credit system at it's core...
Civilization as you all know it has been dependant upon it for over 1000 years.
This is not some new system that showed up in 1913 or 1694...the economy that is about to implode is centuries older than any of the human beings functioning within it.
Basically the system requires not too much and not too little inflation greater than previous inflation...
Basically a constantly increasing amount...One slight problem...there is a maximum potential and when it is reached...it becomes impossible to sustain what the system requires...Then inflation greater than previous inflation to maximum potential transforms into inflation less than previous inflation to maximum potential.
Basically every accounting trick ever discovered along with new ones have been employed to sustain the current system well beyond all previous maximum potentials.
1971 was a maximum potential...The USA along with the rest of the world should have imploded to oblivion once the USA ran out of GOLD to back the US Dollar...according to the rules of the game at that time...but the top makes and breaks the rules of the game...that's the perk of being the owner of the system...And so the rules were changed and instead of the USA along with the rest of the world reaching maximum potential and imploding to oblivion decades ago...it continued to inflate greater than previous inflation by the required amount for another 37 years so far.
One trick for the last 26 years though was the constant collapse of yield rates...The more money that consumers requested commercial banks to manufacture the greater the supply of money cycling through the bond markets...and due to the careful control of the supply of bonds there has basically been for the past 26 years more demand than supply causing bond prices to constantly be bid up higher with yields constantly dropping allowing the money supply of the USA or the total credit market debt to be constantly refinanced at lower and lower rates...
The other trick was to slowly export the manufacturing sector out of the USA into low wage and slave wage zones...The result of that trick was to allow a hyperinflation of the money supply of the USA but without a hyperinflation of the prices of consumer goods...
Basically a hyperinflation of debt over a long period of time rather than in a short period of time like in Germany.
From 1919 to 1921 is close to the USA 1944 to 1982 and 1982 to now is similar to 1921 to 1922...
But reguardless of the tricks...once the exponential point is reached...or more accurately the infinity point...Where the required amount of inflation greater than previous inflation becomes infinite and like Germany the total money supply would have to inflate infinitely...Germany 1922-1923 at basically the same speed.
Or poof over in the blink of an eye...followed by a hyperdeflationary implosion.
Continually fill a balloon fast (4 years Like Germany in the early 1920's) or slow (64 years like the USA and world from 1944 to now)...It is not going to pop any faster or slower when maximum potential is reached.
Once the balloon inflates to maximum potential it will hyperdeflate or pop.
Tomorrow, we will se how the PPT is effective... or ineffective/
ReplyDeleteMichael Hudson had a similar thesis as discussed in this itulip post
ReplyDeleteHe posed the conundrum in his paper "The Mathematical Economics of Compound Interest" (Part One) (Part Two)
Greetings, Hypertiger
ReplyDeleteYou write: "Top sucks from the bottom...The top lives off the yield from the bottom. It's been like this forever and will continue just as long."
You're right, that's how it is today. But that's not how it's *always* been. Take, for example, Vedic culture 5,000 years ago. The Vedas describe a properly functioning society wherein the top (the brahmans, or sadhus) live in a reciprocally fair relationship with the bottom (the sudras, or workers).
While the pure Vedic model breaks down cyclically (across millennia), there are periods when the model is reinstated and functions properly. During these times there is not a dynamic of exploitation between top and bottom, but rather one of highly advanced service: given, accepted, and returned, with full accountability. The perfection of civilization.
The Brahman system is still a top sucking from the bottom system like the Babylonian...
ReplyDeleteThe difference is that it's static...meaning the level you are born into is the level you stay in...the only way to move up to the next level is to be obediant and support the level above you...and if you do that well until you die...you will be promoted up to the next level.
Farmers are the lowest form of life...and must "serve" all the non farmers above them...
It's really no different.
You are a brainwashed moron...
But imagine if I patronized you...Like I actually tried to fool you into worshiping the ground I walked on like a Brahman priest King...
You would be kissing my feet.
The top maintains their position or obtains what they want by giving the bottom what the bottom wants...
I maintain my position by giving all what they need.
The only time you will ever get what you want from me is when what you want and need are the same.
It's not my problem if you don't want what I'm giving you...
Because all I have is what you need...I don't have what you want.
The only time you will ever get what you want from me is when what you want and need are the same.
I would not be telling you that you are a brainwashed moron if you were not a brainwashed moron.
Only an idiot would call someone a "brainwashed moron" based on as little information as you have available to you about my thinking.
ReplyDeleteI'm not addressing the Babylonian system, or comparing it to the Vedic. And I'm not referring to whatever you call "the Brahman system" – I'm referring to the pure Vedic model. While you haven't defined your "Brahman system", it's obviously different from the pure Vedic system.
You write: "The difference is that it's static...meaning the level you are born into is the level you stay in...the only way to move up to the next level is to be obediant and support the level above you...and if you do that well until you die...you will be promoted up to the next level…. Farmers are the lowest form of life...and must "serve" all the non farmers above them..."
What you're referring to above as the "Brahman system" is actually a degenerative cycle of the pure Vedic model, which is popularly known as the caste system. But that "Brahman system" was preceded by a pure model. Do you actually know anything about that pure model? It seems not, from the comments you've made so far. That would make you uninformed. And uninformed people tend to make comments like you just did, calling me a "brainwashed moron".
In the pure Vedic model, there's no such thing as being "born into a level". Qualification comes not from birth, but by way of astute observation of the qualities and symptoms one manifests. Based on the individual's expressed propensities, s/he is given support, training, community and opportunity to do what s/he does best. Whatever is given is returned by those who benefit. This is completely different from what you described above, which is simply a down & dirty description of the caste system.
Your confusion is further made apparent by this comment: "But imagine if I patronized you...Like I actually tried to fool you into worshiping the ground I walked on like a Brahman priest King... You would be kissing my feet."
So here you're describing a "brahman gone bad" – which is what occurs when the pure Vedic system has degenerated into a caste-goswami (or caste brahman) system. Again, it is not the pure model I referred. In the pure Vedic model, you would not find a brahman behaving like a King, allowing his feet to be kissed.
So you pontificate: "I would not be telling you that you are a brainwashed moron if you were not a brainwashed moron."
In fact, your position is the moronic one. I suggest you either acknowledge that, or rebut my position, with citations. Let's take it out of the realm of uneducated opinion, and into the realm of documented evidence. Then we'll see who's the brainwashed moron here.
Frankly, Hypertiger, I'm disappointed with the quality of your response. Your blog comes highly recommended. I suppose I'll have to read more to find out why. It certainly isn't evident in this thread.
My comments in brackets.
ReplyDeletesnip:
The Vedic period (or Vedic Age) is the period in the history of India during which the Vedas, the oldest sacred texts of Hinduism, were being composed. Scholars place the Vedic period in the second and first millennia BCE continuing up to the 6th century BCE based on literary evidence...
Political organization
The grama (village), vis and jana were political units of the early Vedic Aryans. A vish was probably a subdivision of a jana, and a grama was probably a smaller unit than the other two. The leader of a grama was called gramani and that of a vish was called vishpati. Another unit was the gana whose head was a jyeshta (elder).
The rashtra (state) was governed by a rajan (king). The king is often referred to as gopa (protector) and samrat (supreme ruler). He governed the people with their consent and approval
It is possible that he was sometimes elected. [Possible? Sometimes? Unelected "rulers" but with the "consent and approval" of the people?]
There were four councils viz. sabha,samiti,vidhata and gana of which former two were popular ones.
Women were allowed to attend sabha and vidhata only.
The main duty of the king was to protect the tribe. He was aided by two functionaries, the purohita (chaplain) and the senani (army chief; sena: army). The former not only gave advice to the ruler but also practiced spells and charms for success in war. Soldiers on foot (pattis) and on chariots (rathins), armed with bow and arrow were common. The king employed spaśas (spies) and dutas (messengers).
He often got a ceremonial gift, bali, from the people.
Society and economy
The concept of varna and the rules of marriage became rigid sometime later.
The status of the Brahmins and Kshatriyas was higher than Dasyus and Vaisyas.
The Brahmins propagated specialization of an extreme order.
Functioning as an intellectual bureaucracy, [***]they also restricted social mobility[***], as in fields of science, war, literature, religion and the environment. The proper enunciation of verses was considered essential for prosperity and success in war and harvests.
[***] Kshatriyas amassed wealth, and commissioned the performance of sacrifices.[***]
Kshatriyas administered the state, maintained society and the economy of a tribe. They also functioned to maintain law and order. They presided over an assembled court of intellectuals and warriors.
They distributed the finances of their treasuries, with respect to acts and deeds. [Finances collected from whom? On whose authority? The unelected King?]
They also maintained budgets of the tribe with the assistance of ministers.
Cattle and cows were held in high esteem and frequently appear in Rigvedic hymns; goddesses were often compared to cows, and gods to bulls. Agriculture grew more prominent with time as the community settled down. Economy was based on bartering with cattle and other valuables.
Families were patrilineal, and people prayed for abundance of sons.
Society was strictly organized in a system of varna (to be distinguished from caste or colour, it pertained to the occupation [for which you had to suck up to the Brahmins] of the respective people). The four major varnas were Brahmin (the priests and learned people), Kshatriya (kings and warriors), Vaishya (traders and merchants) and Shudra (labourers and workers).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedic_period
It's interesting that you're willing to rely on Wikipedia paste-out's as your "citations".
ReplyDeleteMundane scholars who date the creation of the Vedas, as reflected here in Wikipedia, do so on physical evidence only. The contents of the Vedas themselves, however, make it clear that the Vedas were created untold millennia ago – countless eons before the country known as "India" ever existed. The Vedas first appeared as sound vibration, passed down through disciplic successions. So the scholars you rely on from Wikipedia are dating the Vedas in a way that the Vedas themselves make clear is incorrect. Given that scholars do not themselves adhere to the Vedic knowledge they purport to be experts on, we can hardly accept their definitions of Vedic civilization as being absolute. For a correct definition, one must go to an actual Vedic authority.
The most recent manifestation of what can be called relatively pure Vedic culture existed on this planet about 5,000 years ago, just before the start of Kali yuga (the fourth and final age of the cycle). However, even that was not pure compared to the level of purity prevalent in the first age of the cycle, Satya yuga.
In order to understand Vedic culture, you must first accept that every blade of grass that moves does so by the will of God. The idea that rulers/kings in pure Vedic culture may have been elected, appointed or authorized by the people, or self-elected for that matter, is a false concept. It is the antithesis of pure Vedic culture. The kings were granted office as a direct result of their piety and devotion to the Lord, and their being benedicted to be kings was reciprocation, mercy. No other authorization was required. They were permitted to be kings in order to give service to those under their protection… the exact opposite of "top exploits bottom".
You pluck from Wikipedia the fact that "Women were allowed to attend sabha and vidhata only." I presume you cherry-picked this one because you think it indicates poor treatment of women… a symptom of an exploitive system. If so, you're incorrect. If not, perhaps you can tell us what relevance you think it has to the discussion and why you included it.
Wikipedia correctly notes that the king was aided by a priest and a captain of war. But the priest not only protected the king – he also killed him, or set great difficulty upon him if they king didn't keep to his dharma (do his duty). So this is one of the checks and balances of pure Vedic culture that belies the concept you have of "top exploits bottom".
You quote/write: "The Brahmins propagated specialization of an extreme order" is given out of context.
And
"Functioning as an intellectual bureaucracy, [***]they also restricted social mobility[***], as in fields of science, war, literature, religion and the environment."
I assume these two statements are contextually related in Wiki. If so, they again speak not to pure Vedic culture, but to a denigration of it… the slide into caste Brahmanism. The brahmans in pure culture functioned as spiritual leaders, not intellectual ones. In fact, intellectualism was considered far less important or potent than spiritualism. And knowledge/mastery of the Vedic sastra (scripture) did not require intellectualism, but rather devotion.
You wrote: "Kshatriyas amassed wealth, and commissioned the performance of sacrifices.[***]"
True enough, even in pure culture. But that does not mean "top exploits bottom", either. Depends on how the wealth is used, doesn't it?
"They ((Kshatriyas)) distributed the finances of their treasuries, with respect to acts and deeds. [Finances collected from whom? On whose authority? The unelected King?]"
Here, as throughout your comments, you're looking for signs of a troubled system to support your theory, but that troubled system is found in a degenerative shadow, not in the pure Vedic culture.
So… you've called me a brainwashed moron for stating that pure Vedic culture does not fit your universal model of "top exploits bottom".
You've pasted-in Wikipedia blurbs about caste Brahmanism to support your theory.
I've countered by pointing out differences between degenerative caste Brahmanism and pure Vedic culture.
Can you can give us evidence of anything exploitive in pure Vedic culture, as it's described in sastra – which is not only an ideal, but a system that has been lived by real people, cyclically, across millennia?
(and do take your pick of any bonafide Vedantic sastra… the four Veda, Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Puranas, Upanishads …)
If not, I think you should acknowledge that I was right in the first place.
Please stop using Wiki guys. Wiki is like money, they use it to amass power...
ReplyDelete"In order to understand Vedic culture, you must first accept that every blade of grass that moves does so by the will of God. The idea that rulers/kings in pure Vedic culture may have been elected, appointed or authorized by the people, or self-elected for that matter, is a false concept. It is the antithesis of pure Vedic culture. The kings were granted office as a direct result of their piety and devotion to the Lord, and their being benedicted to be kings was reciprocation, mercy. No other authorization was required. They were permitted to be kings in order to give service to those under their protection… the exact opposite of "top exploits bottom."
ReplyDeleteRulers appointed by God?
"God gave the Saviour to the German people. We have faith, deep and unshakable faith that he [Hitler] was sent to us by God . . ."—Hermann Goering
And if the bottom didn't agree with the appointment, if they thought the "service" was exploitation - that they were being bled dry for the amassment of wealth and sacrifices - then they must have been against God.
Let's just agree to disagree.
Aside from the absurd Marxist duality Hypertiger injects - he's right.
ReplyDeleteVote Ron Paul.
Just as I thought... you're the moron.
ReplyDeleteFor one who likes to assume the role of an authority, you do a lousy job of defending your assertions.
Don't think I'll be back. Bye.
Hypertiger: '2+2=4'
ReplyDeleteResponse: 'Not all the time - sometimes 2+2=5'
Hypertiger: 'If you believe 2+2=5you are a moron'
Response: 'You do a horrible job of defending your assertions.'
Impressive!
ReplyDeleteHotdogs are "dick burgers"......
ReplyDeletegiving Jdd the benefit of the doubt...
ReplyDeletetruly just utopian cultures: 1
unjust exploitative cultures: 67,548
was that really worth the arguement? hypertiger was quick to call names, i'll give you that. Hypertiger, two minutes in the penalty box. i am a student of acient cultures myself, and while i defer to your superior knowledge of vedic, and probably all "indian" cultures, i can ensure you there were several cultures, all throughout the ancient and modern worlds alike, that left evidence of truly spectacular social systems that, in practice, never lived up to the ideal. the big guy steps on the little guy, its how the world works, lets not be nitpicky huh?