Thursday, February 14, 2013

More worthless information.

We are rich at the top of the global system because the minimum wage at the bottom of the global system is 1 US Dollar a day or less.

But we get way more than 1 US Dollar worth of yield for that 1 US Dollar investment.

If the minimum wage at the bottom has to go up to sustain yield extraction...The slaves at the bottom who support all our glorious asses will either have to produce twice as much...Or our return on investmet will shrink.

So then to sustain our glorious asses up here in Heaven...We will have to increase the demand from those increasing the demand from the bottom to the top of the global pyramid scheme.

Now inside economic zones (so called independant soverign nation states) which are sub hierarchies within the global hierarchy...the same thing is happening.

The global system has a demand to sustain it's existance...A demand for inflation greater than previous inflation.

It chops down trees faster than they regrow.

All the old growwth forrests of the USA still have not regrown...because it takes centuries....that is if the trees were replanted...Good thing fossil fuels were discoverd to allow the trees that exist.

In South America...they chopped down the jungle until they ran out...

Their civilization imploded to oblivion and they went back to nature...then 50 men and a cannon from Europe finished them off...Enslaved them to mine silver...which was turned into spanish milled dollars and circulated in the New world...and then were taxed out of circulation by the newly created USA in 1789 to obtain the silver required to supply the demand of the 1792 coinage act to create and sustain the production of US Dollars.

Now the largest source of wealth to loot in the global the middle class.

The bottom is taxed to death basically.

Because at the bottom...the poor spend their dollar a day to survive...and when they spend eventually travels from the bottom to the top.

So Oprah can buy cars and give them away to rich poor people...To buy votes...

Like Obama and the rest of the Democrats do...The Conservatives do as well...But they are cheap when it comes to buying votes.

So the bottom is not a good place to get money from...The rich are loaded with money though.

So taxing them slight problem...the rich or master class...sustains the boot licking servant class...or middle class.

So when the rich are taxed...the servants or middle class have to take pay cuts...or be let go.

Which causes the servant class to shrink and the slave class to expand.

Of course it takes time for all this to play out...

Raisng the minimum wage or anything...Is a positive at the start...But will turn negative in the end.

All in the absolute capitalist system take more power than they give to supply the demand of the system to sustain it's existance which sustains the existance of all...

The system can only give you what you demand if you supply it with what it demands and there is enough left over to supply you with what you demand.

The top maintains it's position by giving the bottom what they want.

All in the absolute capitalist system are slaves...the system is the servant...and the owners of the global system are the master.

When you all in the system reach the point where you can't supply the system with what it all in the system can't be supplied with what you demand from it.

and the system collapses.

but you all are oblivious to this because the owners of the system don't educate those within the system to know what is going on.

You all are kept busy/distracted enough to not have enough free time to figure it out.

Well the vast majority of the population within the global system need to live longer to figure it out...Because very few people ever figure out what is going on because they figure it out by accident.

The amount of time you spend trying to figure out what is going on added up over your entire lifespan...Is generally less than is required.

You might be on track to figure it out in 200 years...but you will die before you cross the finish line.

It might even be impossible for you to figure it out during the remainder of your existance.

Of course I'm a moron that doesn't understand power in the slightest.

Years and years of education of the new arrivals in the power trading system...and no exploration of power.

You are just given power...and because you all don't know anything about power...You all abuse it.

Of course down at the bottom they are virtually powerless...So they hardly abuse it.

But at the top it's all they do since they have access to more power than they know what to do with.

Until the bottom reaches the maximum potential to supply the demand of the top for power.

Then the system cannibalizes itself and dies.

Which is what the global absolute capitalist system has been doing for years now.

The banks collapsed because you all below could no longer sustain them...the bailout engineered...Was to bail all of you below out.

If the banks collapsed...the global credit system would have collapsed and plunged you all into chaos beyond your current abilities to fathom.

The banks don't support you...You all support them.

The banks are not designed to support you all...they just take more power from you all than they give back to you all and eventually kill you al off.

The banks were designed by powerful people to help them become even more powerful...

At the expence of those forced to give more power than they take who become powerless to sustain the powerful


All you need to do is supply enough calories to a producer of calories to sustain their production of calories.

and if you yield 1000 calories from a producer per 1 calorie invested.

that is a massive yield of power...

The wholesale cost of calories is the minimum wage...the retail price of calories is the maximum wage.

The top lives off the yield from the difference between the wholesale cost of production of power and the retail cost of consumption of power.

The yield is the power the top uses to shine bright to dominate all the dim bulbs below.

"Simplicity adds up to the multiplication of complexity which is then divided unequally and subtracted to obtain the required yield of power the absolute capitalists want to manipulate the Universe how they desire."

Raising the minimum wages of the bottom in the USA combined with taxing the maximum wages at the top = Middle Class Annihilation.

"People of privilege (Rich Absolute capitalists gradual/liberal and violent/conservative) will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage. (Power)"--John Kenneth Galbraith

"The modern conservative (Absolute capitalist) is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Liberals or gradual absolute capitalists...Turn into conservatives or violent absolute capitalists when their power is threatened...Or they are destroyed by the conservatives.

You all are playing timid...but you all will crack when wild cornered animal stage shows up...when it's time for you to make the ultimate sacrifce for the system...Where according to the rules...It's time for you to suffer your fate.

But you will resist...That is the purpose of all the police state measures implemented globally the past 12 years.

To deal with all the fate resisters.

"Under (Absolute) capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism (Absolute capitalism), it's just the opposite."--John Kenneth Galbraith

"For at least another hundred years we must pretend to ourselves and to every one that fair is foul and foul is fair; for foul is useful and fair is not. Avarice and usury and precaution must be our gods for a little longer still."--JOHN MAYNARD KEYNES (1930)

Oh goody...After 1000's of years of recorded history showing that's what people have been doing for 1000's of years...There's just 18 years of suffering left...

Until the miracle shows up.

The top is not going to allow their glory to dim...and if the dimmest bulbs at the bottom are given more power to shine a little brighter.

The bulbs in the middle will have to grow dimmer.

The power you all seek has to come from somewhere.

Raising taxes and prices to supply the demand for power requires an increase in supply...Or less power is going to be supplied to someone...

and they will use what power they have to resist their fate.

Without the police and military...the Government has no power to force people to supply the demand for yield.

The top lives off the yield from the bottom.

The purpose of the police and military within the absolute capitalist system is to protect the cause from the consequences.

"The subjects of every state (Bottom) ought to contribute towards the support of the government (TOP), as nearly as possible in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state."--Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations 1776

"Governments of the absolute capitalistic hierarchial food powered make work enterprise are administration systems of the enterprise constructed and sustained by the bottom or employees at the demand of the top or owners of the absolute capitalistic hierarchial food powered make work enterprise"

“The study of money (Power), above all other fields in economics, is one in which complexity is used to disguise truth or to evade truth, not to reveal it.”--John Kenneth Galbraith Money: Whence it came, where it went - 1975, p15


Anonymous said...

I heard someone comment the other day about his latest Caribbean Cruise. He evidently saw some of the utter poverty in the nations to the south during his cruise and was "reminded how great America was to not have poverty like that."

I laughed to myself because I realized he did not know to real source of America's wealth. We have been taking the Fed Reserve Bribe for 100 years to keep "increasing our SOL" (and before that we just stole land and labor), except now our SOL is decreasing of late.

Our increase was on the backs of the third world, and as we did less work, they were doing more to serve the "kings" in the U.S. and West.

We have been taking the bribe knowingly or not for decades. For those who now "resist their fate", they have no leg to stand on. Our "wealth" is not legitimate because we didn't work for it. We've only done a tiny fraction of the work to account for our SOL, the rest of the work has been done with currency manipluation and power.

Three stages of stealing administered by the top and we were hired to execute them sometimes unknowingly (and one more stage):

Stage 1: Land steal in the Americas
Stage 2: Labor steal mostly from Africa
Stage 3: Currency advantage steal
Stage 4: Snake eats itself because it has eaten all else.

Each one of these stages was HUGE in allowing us to only do a fraction of the hard labor to make our nation what it is. Imagine, the land alone was the biggest steal of all. How can we now claim legitimate property rights? Where are our memories?

There is a standing treaty right now that the U.S. Gov has never honored. The Sioux Lakota would like their land back as promised. How can we not give it back to them? How can we justify that? That is just one of 1000 major "steals" the Westerners have carried out to pretend to be superior, but let's face's just stealing, and it does not make us honorable, does not make our Constitution honorable. Our wealth has NEVER been legit.

Imagine the Lakota were finally given back their land. "Oh lordie, what to do with all of the settlers?!" If they are gracious maybe they will set up reservations for us. HA

Sorry...rant off now.

Anonymous said...

Never worthless

scepticus said...

HT you have some grasp of truth but you continue to fail (involuntarily or deliberately I don't know) to follow through to the nub of the matter. Why?

All life since day one has always followed the energy-powered make work enterprise of picking up yield from lower in the complexity hierarchy with the lowest level being the coherent solar radiation which is gifted to all things on this planet. Anaerobic cynaobacteria multiplied without end until they forced an oxygenation event that killed them all off but in the end made way for something greater than them to take hold.

All life seeks to build complexity and hierarchy that will ultimately and inevitably feed off its creator as long as the energy flux remains sufficiently favourable.

The stock of fossil fuels are nothing more than the sequestered rentier profits of the life-processes that created them billions of year ago. The fact that at the time they were saved only sufficed to ensure they were squandered by a hierarchy vastly more complex than they eons later.

I think its time for you to drop this affected anthropological perspective and start recognising for the benefit of your readership that the essential take-more-than-you-give process drives all life and is mandated by the second law of thermodynamics.

That law is what gives rise to all complex processes and all life given the impossibly low entropy starting point we are all (all complex things in the cosmos) gifted with. You need to deal with the paradox that life is created with a death wish and the sole goal of increasing the rate of entropy production, caveated if you like with its own survival.

You make out like the truth "we are all refusing to recognise" is a disease unique to human minds but it isn't. We are all bound by the second law and so is everything that came before us all of which strives to decreases its internal entropy at the expense of everything else.

Recognition of this essential fact may very well not be of any utility in perpetuating so-called just-think-positive delusions but it is at least honest.

You need to take the next step and carry the message that our predicament is the same predicament that has always faced living things and indeed non living complex things like convection currents and tornadoes.

What is preventing you from being as honest as you possibly can be - is it ignorance or some kind of wilful ideology?

Anonymous said...

I love scepticus's comments. What he's getting at is that Hyper has shown us a higher "fractal" that is dictating our current U.S/West dominance that started thousands of years ago with other civilizations. What scepticus is saying is that there is yet a HIGHER fractal than this that encompasses all of the development of life in the universe. (Hyper actually has mentioned this also).

This upper fractal dictates that what will happen has exactly happened: the dominant forces will use the weak forces until they are spent, to get to the next level.

What scepticus is saying is that there should not be a "guilt" factor associated with it since it is the natural way of the universe, how can it be prevented? Answer = it can't.

Anonymous said...

The end result for us on planet Earth of the "universe's natural way" is that WE MIGHT NOT SUCCEED to reach the next level (Earth perishes), but if we DO succeed, the survivors will be the "ones protected from the consequence of their actions", just as they are setting up now. The "strong" forces are setting up their shields to survive to the next level AT OUR EXPENSE (we are the weak forces they are using now).

I suspect there WILL be survivors and they WILL get to the next level with a reduced Earth population, and machines to do much of the mundane work.

scepticus said...

Anon, the principle expounded here is the principle of maximum entropy production. All living things and indeed all non living complex systems including the sun follow it as well.

There isn't any mystery here or fractal layers besides that which emerges from this universal pricniple being followed by everything.

The universe was born with a death-wish if you like, and we are all here to help it on its way to thermodynamic equilibrium and heat death, at which point profits and taking more than you give will cease.

Until then the absolute capitalistic energy wasting heat death chasing hierarchy building party will continue.

What is the point of this? There is no point to it but it was ordained simply because once there was a big bang in a very very very low entropy state and it can only go one way.

Or maybe there is a point because when the omega point of heat death is finally reached, maybe something wonderful happens. Who knows. We don't know, but we have to do it. The second law of thermodynamics is responsible for the just think positive delusions of both men and burning matches.

This is where capitalism comes from. We need to think positive because we need to imagine what happens at the omega point is something wonderful, because if it isn't then why are we being forced irreversibly towards it?

HT has no better knowledge of the final purpose of the universe than you or I do, so I say, think positive if you want to, because everything else in the universe does. Why rail against what is ordained?

scepticus said...

Actually I have been unfair to HT. I have gone back and read the first ever post, and re-read the just prior 'That Being Said' post.

The first ever post says this:


"Intelligent life has two choices...Absolute Capitalism employing self-indulgent reason or Responsible Capitalism employing Altruistic logic... Absolute Capitalists believe that the needs of the one or few outweigh the needs of the many... Responsible Capitalists believe that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or one... But that is socialism!

So those of you who believe in the needs of the one or few outweighing the needs of the many...You believe the King or Queen's needs outweigh the needs of the subjects...You believe the needs of the political Hierarchy in any political system outweighs the needs of the governed population...You believe lies are superior to truth...

The only need that exists in the Universe is the truth. The basis and creation of LAWS is the gift of Responsible Capitalists...Civilization is the creation of responsible capitalists... The only law that exists in the Universe is the truth. Absolute capitalists believe in the ends justifying the means and interpret law as you can do whatever you want as long as you don´t get caught breaking the LAW...Or how a Criminal individual and or an Animal thinks...

Responsible capitalists believe that the ends don´t justify the means because they believe breaking the LAW is wrong reguardless if you think you can get away with it or not get caught...Or how a civilized individual thinks...

All the bad or Negative effects that have happened in the recorded history of humanity can be blamed on Absolute Capitalists and all the good or Positive effects that have happened in the recorded history of humanity can be blamed on Responsible capitalists..."


So in the beginning HT has started out with the notion of 'Reponsible Capitalists'.

scepticus said...

More recently, this:

"Since the Universe is absolute long as it exists...belief can exist."

Which admits "Responsible capitalists" must be un-natural!

So there is an evolution of thinking here. Despite the seemingly relentless repetition of the message, HTs thinking has changed considerably since this blog was started.

And this, also from the previous post:

"Numbers are rounded or guessed at...but because that is what the Universe does to exist...It's a wave composed of waves.

Basically as soon as the end is reached it's impossible for the end to exist and so there is a beginning."

If I can translate this I'd say its a reference to Roger Penrose's Conformal Cyclic Cosmology. Basically, this theory says that eventually all matter collapses to blakc holes, the black holes evaporate via hawking radiation so that there is no matter left in the universe just radiation. Because radiation travels at the speed of light, relativity tells us that radiation can't experience or measure time. Because there is no longer any time, there cannot be any distance. Because there cannot be any distance, everything exists at one point. BIG BANG. Suddenly, the heat death maximum entropy end state of the universe ends and it all starts over again.

This is I think as close to universal truth as any of us can ever get. HT is correct to formulate and broadcast this as a religious message, which is I think the thrust of this blog. A modern religious message suitable to communicate essential truths useful for social action to the masses.

But what puzzles me, is why the message is so negative. As I have argued, the same essential truth can be placed in a more positive light. The purpose of religion is not revolution or incitement of philosphy and action which runs counter to universal principles, but to convey understanding of important things in a moral framework which can be usefully digested by the masses.

The anti-religious framework is that of magic, as Daniel O'Keefe demonstrates in 'Stolen Lightening'. The money system qualifies as 'magic', as O'Keefe also shows.

Thus to fight the money/power system, useful religion is required. And a useful religion MUST convey a justification for thinking positive.

Religions are about collective agreement and action and magic is about empowering individuals. The money system is very definitely the latter, and specifically about empowering the money magicians.

HT, you are so close to doing something genuinely useful here, but I still think your message is not positioned to to achieve a useful result, even though it is truthful. You say you don't care about the result, but I think you do.

Anonymous said...

Does it get any more ridiculous than the above? Sophistry at its finest. Fitting title though -
"More worthless nformation

Anonymous said...

Anyone here have a rudimentary understanding of Bretton Woods?
Any knowledge of Mundell-Flemming?
The G20?
The Basel Accords? I, II, III?

HYPERTlGER said...

Taking more power than you give.

Is the same as chopping down trees faster than they regrow.

This is absolute capitalism.

You have two options...choose to stop before you reach the logical conclusion and are forced to stop.

Or choose to continue until you are forced to stop.

All minedless life which of course is ignorant of Truth follows this path to it's logical conclusion.

Sharing power equally is similar to chopping down trees as fast as or slower than they regrow.

This is responsible capitalism.

Human beings share power equally.

You all are animals pretending to be Human beings.

All things that are ignorant of Truth take more than they give or chop down trees faster than they regrow until the trees are all gone.

All mindless existance follows the path of least resistance to the logical conclusion of the take more power than is give equation.

It's not up to me to take you all where you are going.

It's up to you.

It's up to you all to make the choice.

I just point out where the path that is chosen leads.

Anonymous said...

"All minedless life which of course is ignorant of Truth follows this path to it's logical conclusion."

An alternative hypothesis: The reason our brains have evolved is so that as a species, we can take more than we give at a faster rate than we could without them.

Which means that the earth as a whole takes more than it gives from the universe faster than the other planets. (I have data for that).

You say that we have been gifted with brains to resist the mindless tendency of the universe. Responsible Capitalism.

I say that we have brains to do the work of the 'mindless' universe more effectively.

The problem with your proposal is that we can't win. For a brain to exist it must take more than it gives thermodynamically from that which you say it is assigned to save.

I accept from a religious standpoint that being assigned 'mission impossible' has a certain appeal. As a religious exhortation I see where you are coming from.

However I can pose an alternative mission: do the universes work to the best of your ability as long as the whole survives. Absolute capitalism.

Your proposal is one to appeal to individuals and it seems derived from Protestant Christianity. Mine is one to be followed by life as a whole.

But yes, which option you prefer and which god you pick is up to you all. Or is it?

Anonymous said...

The Pattern Behind Self Deception

Anonymous said...

The Pattern Behind Self Deception

Anonymous said...

Your theology has no adherants but yourself?

Anonymous said...

I believe

scepticus said...

"Bank of England deputy governor Paul Tucker has said negative interest rates should be considered."

Bank of England official proposes 'taking less than you give'.

Well, fancy that.

messianicdruid said...

scepticus asked, "Why rail against what is ordained?" One must if he feels it is NOT ordained. Here is a multi-century example:

messianicdruid said...

Here is part 2:

Anonymous said...

.. dammit dude! ... get a spellchecker .. thoughts from the Oracle go down easier when the Oracle can spell .. jus' sayin' .. anyway, good thoughts though ..

mannfm11 said...

There was plenty of oil in 1929. What happened? Clearly we ran out of gold to leverage at current prices of the time.

For you guys blowing all kinds of scientific smoke, you might cut a few corners and read "The State" by Franz Oppenheimer, which you can Google and read for free. Oppenheimer put out some other stuff on the absolute capitalistic system.

At what point does the middle class run out of things to hock? Really think the slave labor in China is going to turn around and become the consumers? I read there were 85 billionaires in the panel that runs China. Think they are going to give up their power, if they have any? No, they are the people that, despite being communist, are sucking from the bottom that was already close to dry to start.

So, what are the assets of the middle class? Clearly stuff they borrowed from the top. Houses? We saw how fast that can disappear when it can no longer carry the debt. Stocks? These are merely pieces of paper the top hold from the bottom and sell to the middle class at the top. The top already owns it all, it merely lets the middle hold onto it from time to time.

The closest thing to sustainable capitalism in modern history was the USA in the 19th century. The top made a point to change that game. The idea of a nation of farmers and small merchants was destroyed in order to preserve the capital investments of the banking class. The Republic was replaced with an militaristic empire. Industry with education. Education of the false in general.

The ideas in the above arguments work fine, if the goal is to fight a war, but to sustain an economy and prosperity, they matter little. Those who have the gold make the rule and once they make the rule, the gold matters little. It is all owed back to them and the banking racket becomes the liability of the liabilities.

Anonymous said...

"The closest thing to sustainable capitalism in modern history was the USA in the 19th century. The top made a point to change that game. The idea of a nation of farmers and small merchants was destroyed in order to preserve the capital investments of the banking class. The Republic was replaced with an militaristic empire. Industry with education. Education of the false in general. "

Fairy story. You seriously believe that stuff? C'mon, this is the self delusion this blog is always talking about.

There are no goals, just life blindly groping for the opportunity to degrade energy gradients as quickly and as completely as possible. This is the invisible hand, built from the top and the bottom, plus our machines.

It doesn't care about fairy stories about pioneers, delusional historiography, conservative moralising, tree-hugging utopianism or "sustaining prosperity".

I'll stick with the science rather than the delusional ideological smoke if its all the same to you.

HYPERTlGER said...

There has never been sustainable growth.

There have just been periods of unsustainable growth that looked sustainable.

or temporary prosperities or booms.

It's impossible to not take more power than you give to sustain existence.

But if you are taking more power than you give from the sun.

It will take you along time to figure this out.

If you are taking more power than you give from another supply of power that is less powerful than the Sun...You can figure this out faster.

The credit system in the form of commercial banking has existed for at least 600 years.

Stage 1 is the inflation of debt and the destruction of savings

Stage 2 is the deflation of debt and the destruction of equity

Stage 3 is the bankruptcy of the banks, collapse of the economy/division of labor, and the consolidation of power.

Stage 4 is a general breakdown.

At all times your goal is to postpone the inevitable as long as possible when you take more power than you give.

The past 6 decades since 1944 when the US Dollar was made the global trade medium of exchange or money of the global credit system has been a boom...or temporary prosperity

A credit boom that is followed by a bust or temporary austerity when the demand for power to sustain the temporary prosperity or boom becomes greater than the supply of power.

In 1944 the when the US Dollar was made the power that sustains the global credit system...It made the US consumer the supply of the money or power that the global credit system demands to sustain it's continued inflation or existence.

and the primary source of new US dollar creation was the US real estate sector.

New mortgages are the source of US dollars which is credit which is debt at the base of the multiplier effect.

The greatest real estate boom in US history took place from 1991-2005.

Clinton and Gore rode up the boom up and it made them look good.

When after 14 years the demand for line signers that were willing and able to sign on the dotted line to agree to supply the power required to postpone the collapse...became greater than the supply of line signers.

The collapse of the seed credit that all the rest of the sectors in the economy require then caused the reverse of the multiplier effect which is the domino effect.

So far after 5 years...the USA is short 10 Trillion dollars that should have been produced if the rate of production or yield of US dollars from 1944 to 2008 was sustained.

but in 2008...the first time since the late 1920's in the USA.

The supply of people willing and able to supply the demand for credit by the credit system ran out.

and so far they have not returned.

HYPERTlGER said...

According to history...

Close to the end the people that did the best...Were the people that left the cities.

mannfm11 said...

I can't argue about any of that. It is clear what is there is all that is there in the form of money. A system that requires the creation of borrowed money in order to sustain the flow of money from those that don't have any to those that do eventually runs out of gas. I'm not sure there weren't more people willing to sign on the dotted line, as the market for the paper for those that were signing and couldn't pay ran out. There are plenty of people who would have signed up rather than rent, had they known they might have been able to stay in for several years without paying, before they were thrown out. It would have still run out.

There is a sustainable system, but it would require capital not earn much. It was systematically destroyed in the latter part of the 19th century by those that endowed themselves as the top in the USA. This was one of the purposes of the Civil War. It would involve the people spending all but a relatively fixed amount of money back into production. Thus the capitalist would have to cast his bread out on the water repeatedly. Any extra would merely be spent on a higher standard of living.

The minute borrowed money is used to sustain consumption, the system would be on its way to blowing up. I would suspect sustainable would also mean that none would be denied a means of sustaining themselves. I'm probably mentioning something that isn't going to occur, merely out of the need of some to maintain the current class system.

In this vein, the substitute is probably 90% tax systems on high incomes (that is difficult to define today), high estate taxes with no relief for the establishment of foundations, which the super wealthy use to sustain the class system. Any attempt to levy high tax rates on high incomes always invades incomes that aren't high in terms of being rich, so they never get off the ground. The estate tax scale in the USA was established years ago, before the amounts became relatively insignificant in terms of value, while the rates remained high. What was $50K is now $1 million. $1 million was rich. Today it is not much more than enough money to retire modestly.

mannfm11 said...

The problem in perception is that what isn't supposed to fall apart is supposed to fall apart, the ultimate paradox. The system of savings is based on the system of debt and the system of debt offers little mathematical solution other than to take the savings from the system of savers and give it to the system of debtors, with which to pay the debts to the savers. Otherwise, the debts and the savings can't exist in reality, only in fantasy. I tried to describe this to someone once and he merely said he would make the money. So I asked him if he was going to counterfeit it, as he was going to have to get it from the system of debt money otherwise. The light finally came on.

Thus, if the debts are unpayable, the savings doesn't exist. It is gone, though the saver still gets a statement. If the expansion of credit ceases, so must the expansion of corporate profits, or for that matter, profits at all. The top must create the money to sustain the flow and they won't do it for nothing.

I come here to see the clues you write next. I don't see how they stop the water when the damn breaks. Do they merely go on issuing more IOU's that only a fool would ever expect performance? That works until someone points out the emperor has no clothes, then it is like fire in the theatre. My feeling is the model is exponential, then the number flips to become a fraction of itself, thus consuming the system at a faster rate than it produced it. Look how fast it blew in 2008.

There is the nonsense of abandoning the dollar you hear about all the time. The Chinese are going to sell our debt. To whom? We are beyond that point and when the dollar is abandoned, the system will completely blow. The horse is too far out in the desert, moving to fast to get off. We have basically reached the point of make believe, beyond the point of make believe that was bought last time. Today, economists pretend governments can issue debt to the moon, that the past doesn't matter, that central banks can buy this debt in ever greater amounts. This is the just think positive crowd. Something will upset this apple cart and the game will be up.

Lastly, in the country, as in people did better in the country? How far out in the country? We have the means to buy something

HYPERTlGER said...

The real estate boom that began in 1991 until 2005.

Ran out of line signers.

The weakest line signers at the end who didn't get a chair when teh music stopped.

Were the losers that were blamed.

money created out of thin air was given to people that had no ability to pay it back.

they were willing to sign on the dotted line...but were not able to.

other than the fact it only requires someone to point at the line and say...right there...sign.

1991-2005 is a long time to have an exponentially growing supply of debt to absolutely capitalize upon.

but the resources are being consumed to do what?

chop down trees faster than they regrow.

or burn oil faster than it's being produced.

and after 14 years of maximum potnetial burn down of the US consumer.

they reached the bottom of the barrel.

and the environmentalists demanding austerity to be imposed are not helping.

Except to slow the burn down of resources.

Because to sustain a controlled end of the don't want to run out of oil or anything else required completely.

The only way you could have kept the real estate boom going past 2005...Is if you had enough line signers willing and able at the right place and time to sign on the dotted line to keep it going.

but since it's been 5 years and the volume has not returned and yield rates are so low that the FED has to subsidize the top banks to keep them from collapsing.It means line signers were being consumed faster than they were being produced for 14 years.

like chopping down trees faster than they regrow until they run out.

The trees ran out in 2005...and they still have not grown back enough to resume the previous level of plundering.

and in that time...10 Trillion dollars of new money that should have been generated by the USA...has not.

So the supply of monetary inflation out into the world has been cut.

All the collapsed economic zones like egypt greece cyprus.

Have been cut off for various reasons to hide what is realy going on and have become yield starved and are crumbling.

Cut off as demand in relation to the supply...To support the rest of the global trade system.

what if we run out of line signers?

we will never run out of line signers as long as people exist.

yes...but are they willing and able to supply the required demand for inflation to overpower deflation and keep the system inflating by the required amount forever?

If's game over.

I guess they thought line signers would just keep magically apearing at the right place and time forever.

Like a magic forrest where trees appear to be chopped down as soon as you began trying to chop a tree down.

The just think positive ignore negative religion has a down side that follows it's upside when you run out of power to sustain the upside.

Chopping down trees faster then they regrow to sustain fun might look fun at the start...It never does at the end when you choose to stop having fun or continue until you are forced to stop having fun.

Anonymous said...

By One Agreeable to Aten:

HYPERTlGER said...

I'm done posting on the Internet.

There is more than enough information on this blog to sift through searching for the solution that no one likes.

The biggest problem with the it allows people from outside national boundries to invade and cause trouble.

I have caused enough...Too much.

What goes on within national bounderies is private business of the populations.

Which ultimately have more than enough to deal with internally to not require foreigners to add to the chaos.

The war between you all and me is over.

Now it's you all against you all to figure out the destiny of you all.

Thanks for putting up with me as long as you all did.

scepticus said...

No, please don't do that. Not just when you have shown that you do actually possess human vulnerability and empathy, as it is has been clear me to you always have done. I have been waiting to see it.

This is a personal message from me to you. I don't expect or want you to allow it on the blog.

You have a rare ability to communicate an important message to intransigent and distracted minds, including my own, back then.

I certainly owe a debt to your outpourings, and the fact I come back to challenge you on perhaps 1% or 2% of the truth you have outlined is not an attack but a homage.

Please don't withdraw, rather, reach out. What is the worst that could happen as a result?

You can always find me if you have not already, here:

All the very best,


Anonymous said...

I have found your postings very thought provoking, thanks, and I hope you change your mind. You will be missed here, and on Bear Chat. Kindest regards, David.

Cheryl-Lynné Rose Henderson said...


HYPERTlGER said...

I might just post here more often.

Anonymous said...

My name is Michael, too. Not sure what your point was with that post over on BearsChat.

Anonymous said...

Do you ever get tired of posting worthless crap? Everyone here has figured that out. So the next step is trying to ruin the Wall Street Examiner blog.
Take your meds

Anonymous said...

Dreary and repetitious.

Anonymous said...

Sacred Economics
About Sacred Economics

Sacred Economics traces the history of money from ancient gift economies to modern capitalism, revealing how the money system has contributed to alienation, competition, and scarcity, destroyed community, and necessitated endless growth. Today, these trends have reached their extreme—but in the wake of their collapse, we may find great opportunity to transition to a more connected, ecological, and sustainable way of being.

This book is about how the money system will have to change—and is already changing—to embody this transition. A broadly integrated synthesis of theory, policy, and practice, Sacred Economics explores avant-garde concepts of the New Economics, including negative-interest currencies, local currencies, resource-based economics, gift economies, and the restoration of the commons. Author Charles Eisenstein also considers the personal dimensions of this transition, speaking to those concerned with “right livelihood” and how to live according to their ideals in a world seemingly ruled by money. Tapping into a rich lineage of conventional and unconventional economic thought, Sacred Economics presents a vision that is original yet commonsense, radical yet gentle, and increasingly relevant as the crises of our civilization deepen.[/QUOTE]

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Anonymous said...


At this point, if you spend much time researching power politics or the distribution of wealth, resources and basic necessities, it seems evident and undeniable, dare I say, “common sense,” that we, in fact, live in a neo-feudal society built on debt and mental slavery.

That may sound like over-the-top rhetoric, and it obviously sounds extreme to propagandized and conditioned minds, and yes, it is extreme. However, it is the unfortunate reality of the present situation. The facts are there for the rational and unbiased mind to absorb and comprehend.

If you take a few minutes of your time and read this through, it will easily be proven. We will look at how the system works, and then, hopefully, we will begin the process of evolving society together, as grandiose as that may sound.

Let’s start by giving some context and perspective on present circumstances by breaking down some economic data. As Thomas Jefferson once said, “Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day.”
- See more at:

toktomi said...

Well, we [all of us doomin' old timers] have reached [or nearly so] the end that we all "knew" was coming.

So, Hypertiger, having read your stuff for at least a few years now, I wonder if you have any clues about the only real question that remains.

How will you know when the balloon goes up?

"How will you know when the balloon goes up? Advice from survival experts." []

Any thoughts?


Anonymous said...

Is the "solution" simply to follow the financial law in the old testament (no interest, resets every 40 years etc.)?
The same one that church's don't bother to preach I may add.

Also, on the 4 steps mentioned earlier by you, I assume we are between 2 and 3 but the government keeps propping up the banks?
Part B to the above...can/do the steps take different lengths of in do can the last one or two happen quite quickly compared to the earlier ones?

From what you have said I assume one can take a general economic chart (whatever that would be) of the last few decades and flip it to give one an idea of the future...where the recessions are long and the booms are short, complete opposites of the way things were on the way up.

I'm also curious as to time frames. How long would it take on the way down for the US to be living like the 3rd world?

Anonymous said...

Hey HT this is gembouncer. I have also used many other names, American1973, etc. I've posted on a conspiracy domain here or there once or twice.

Well anyway bro, don't get discouraged. Your analysis is quite correct. Sure its hard to say truth in a terminal system, without clashing against those who are in trance state. Does your blog talk about trance states at all?

In the "goverrments" thread maintained by money sage Levi Philos at some conspiracy domain, I explained that essentially the 20/80 rule speaks to a breakdown of trance states. That is to say, even if 20% of the USA or EU for example, wakes up, the other 4/5ths will obey the directives which are appealing to them within their trance state.

Hey buddy, do not stop. I love reading your stuff, and you may have seen some of mine. I really appreciate the resonance of your writing, it goes down in Internet history my brother.

It is not easy for people to come to terms with Freud's epic work, "Moses and Monotheism" which imo, triggered to fight for the stolen Aten of the 18th dynasty (Moses' orgins). Shicklegruber, deified Nefertiti's bust and still they hold it dear. His biographer tried to paint him (and of course his ally, Italin Rome with the obelisk of Thutmoses IV as their totem) as the heir to Akhenaten. Oh, also, Shicklegruber's momma worked at a Rothschild home, and this and other circumstantial evidence indicates that Hitler was a Sabbatean scion, a "holy bastard" as the Frankists would enjoy creating in their breeding rituals.

Well anyway, in 1934, in his major final work, Freud said that essentially, the psychosis of the fall of Egypt around 1300bc, and the schism between Isaac and Ishmael, is easily seen in the events of Jesus, Mohammed, and yes, our present day as well. Freud said essentially, in a sort of pre-Joseph Cambellian-way, that a mass psychosis needed to be understood and processed.

Well, I guess its getting processed as warfare. The Earthling's psychosis and dissonance I mean. All humans on Earth are being tested as to integrity, I suppose.

That elimination of food, is the main goal of the Jesuit company Monsanto, does speak to the unlimited power which is weilded at the very top. Imagine being so powerful that Mafia Dons themselves, pay tithe of 10% or more to you? Now that's frikkin power!

Well, as power shifts, its not unlike the Poseidon Adventure fil where the boat rolls over, is a good analogy, and I have used it before in y writings on Ye Internetes. I suppose you might agree that the essence of the debt-based civilization, is not unlike a cruise ship being regular in a state of rotation, spinning in the water. If one is able to take the right actions, then one could live well on such a ship, which was being revolved in the very water, over and over.

Ah yes, the good ship Poseidon, aka the world credit scam of eternal usury. If you are the upper decks at the right moments, you can bask on the deck. Tehn, at the right signal, before anyone knows, go down to the lower decks where you have your special room that revolves and is sealed from outside water. Wait out the "upside down" event, where all the rabble are killed by the fact that the HULL DOES NOT HAVE DOORS and therefor when the ship rolls over, it kills the rabble, but the people with the funds to save air and stay pressurized, do just fine. When the ship follows its axial rotation and once again turns face up, the wealthy families who built the ship in the first place, can emerge to a nicely scrubbed ship. A but destroyed and wetter, but it's theirs alone, to sell tickets to a whole nother boatload of passengers.

Ah yes The Captains of Credit! Ahoy Matey, be it any wonder that in the Pirates movies, ate the end, the crown is hanging children for piracy?! HA!

The ocean itself can sink every ship on and within it, at any time. That is the power of the ocean, and waves, and frequencies.

Anonymous said...

I find it frustrating that so many self proclaimed " experts" will blame the worlds problems, corruptions and evils upon
" select" groups or entities
{ liberals , rightwingers, banksters, jews, catholics, masons, etc}

The reality is, HUMANITY is flawed . Humans will always be corrupt and flawed and it doesnt matter who or what groups are in charge. If they werent in charge, there will always be other groups that would be in charge and be just as corrupt.

Humanity is the real sickness and evil upon this realm. Furthermore, any person or group that wishes to have power over others, will always have traits of greed, corruption, evil because good people do not wish to have power over others.

Because of this simple fact, it ensures that evil will ALWAYS be in charge and good will always be a victim to that evil . Evil people will always do whatever is neccessary to get power and keep power...good people will not engage in such tactics.

As long as humans are on this planet, evil will always be in charge, just like it has always been. There will never be any sky messiahs or Gods that magically descend from the clouds to punish the evil people and reward the good people. Thats all one big lie created by the very evil entities that are in charge and benefit from society worshipping such religious fantasies.

HYPERTlGER said...

Operating like a Human being and operating like an animal are two separate but currently symbiotic things.

Anonymous said...

Human beings are just trained animals { and alot of humans arent even on that level} . Evil and corruption has always ruled earth and always will as long as humans are here and in control of positions of power, money, influence, etc. Its easy for people to wish to blame certain groups of people for the worlds evils, but the reality is, humanity in and of itself is flawed. Until the day comes that those flaws of humanity can somehow be erased from our genes, evil and corruption will always be in charge .

Anonymous said...

The cemetaries are full of doomers. World will end tomorrow. But, there are those that do real work and do not have time to be repeatedly wrong

Anonymous said...

Cemetaries are full of doomers.